Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I can tell you that I dont downplay stuff like that, ever. I despise Hyunda (and most companies/products that use slave, or virtually slave, labor in "developing countries"), and no matter how tempting it is sometimes, I will never buy a german car because of what they did during WW2, and Toyota is no exception.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Precisely.


No, but you see, this is where you are wrong. These companies do not pass these cost cutting to their consumers, they use it to maximize their own profits. Seriously, do you think Nike is using child labor in China to provide their customers all over the world with a cheap pair of $150 sneakers? No buddy, they are stashing their pockets with a lot of dough, like 1000% profit margins instead of reasonable 40% or so.

Och

iTrader: (3)

No buddy, this has nothing to do with culture or different values or morals. This has to do with greed and corruption. It happens right here in America too, in fact Toyota is more American than Japanese at this point, and if this story turns out true, I wouldnt be surprised if Toyotas American executes were well aware of it.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'd been wondering for some time how they'd managed to slash the price of the Prius battery packs. If this is true, then exactly what I'd though is going on - exploited workers who are ill protected for the dangers they face thrashing away under a boss best described as a slave driver - is the truth. Sad day for Toyota, but certainly predictable IMHO.

Threxx

Interesting... so German car companies used slave labor during WW2? I am not much of a history buff so I really would have no idea. How did that go down? I know BMW used to do planes for the *****.. right? I'm guessing maybe they used POW camps and possibly jewish prison camp labor? If so, did the **** party force them to do this to enhance production, or did they initiate this on their own?

Och

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much every german company used slave labor during WW2, including BMW, MB, and whatever Audi was called during that time. Dr. Porsche himself was a famous ****, he was a personal friend of Hitler, and was arrested as war criminal when the war was over.

As far as whom they used, I dont know, probably everyone besides the Jews. They usually killed all the Jews, usually by burning them alive in ovens, and used everyone else for slave labor and such. 20,000,000 of my people killed by ***** in WW2.

And yeah, BMW never built planes for the *****... They tried, but failed, lol. So much for German engineering.

kt22cliff

Why can't you apply the same standard to Japaneses products that you do for German products. Japanese did - perhaps not as well documented as 6 million jews killed by ***** - commit crimes against humanity during WW2 from "comfort women" - basically forced sex slaves for Japanese soldiers to biological and chemical warfare research on human subjects to Mass killings of Chinese, Koreans, and south east asians. Go do google on Japanese war crimes. In fact alot of Japanese companies - pharmaceutical companies in particular but also heavy equipment and other indutrial companies - are same ones either actively/passively participated benefited from war crimes. In fact from wiki, you will read that Toyota was "the company was dedicated to truck production for the Imperial Japanese Army"

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, you're absolutely correct, but its just human nature... You know, I had this conversation with a Phillipino friend of mine, who said that a lot of Phillipinos feel the same way about the Japanese as I feel about Germans. So while I sympathise with him and his people, I cant feel as strong about it as I feel about the Germans, because my people weren't affected. But its sad either way, what humanity does to iteself sometimes is just shameful.

One thing that I still dont get, how did Hitler get all these German people to follow him, and do what they did? I mean I understand (but I do no condone it in any way) when undeducated, desperate people in thrid world countries commit masacres, but Germany was economically strong with some of the most intellegent and educated people... How did they all came to become a bunch of murdering psychos? Of course you have greed and Hitlers promise of easy profit are tempting, but would it make reasonable people become murderers? Do you think Americans could ever do it? For instance if an American leader said, lets kill all the arabs and take their for free? I'm sure a lot of rednecks would support the idea, but I doubt any would actually grab the guns and go for it.

kt22cliff

People who are put in certain circumstances will do, under pressure, what they wouldn't "normally" do. There was a famous psychology experiment done
at Stanford in early 1970's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

The Germans in 1930's are no less and no more special than John Doe who's living in heartland of the states or any country for that matter. Just look at how much Bush and Cheney gets away with bending the rule of law. Now Congress just passed a surveillance bill that "retroactively" shield telecom companies who cooperated with gov't from civil lawsuits about wiretaps on American citizens perhaps illegally perhaps legally. Some might say hey I got nothing to hide, let them tap the phone/internet/emails/whatever and catch the terrorists but that's how it starts with power grab.

UDel

Germans these days are not ***** nor are they committing the atrocities committed by the ****'s in the 1940's. Germany is a very good and important ally of the US now, why have prejudice against people for things that occurred over 60 years ago when they have completely changed and most of the people who committed those atrocities are dead. I believe you said your ancestors are Russian and there were many atrocities committed by Russians against their own people as well as others during and especially after WWII namely by Stalin and his followers. Russia did want to join the Tripartite Pact (Germany, Italy, and Japan) and did sign a secret treaty with the ****'s in the beginning of the war where Russia offered a major financial package to Germany which they accepted to form an alliance with the Axis powers during WWII and Russia assumed Germany did accept this alliance. Russia was not exactly against Hitlers or **** actions and policies during the beginning of WWII and felt it would be to their advantage to join them. Hitler and Germany did end up double crossing Russia and attacked them and had no real intention of allowing Russia in the alliance. There were so many different alliances, switching sides, and atrocities all over the world during WW1 and WWII it is mind boggling when you really read about it. I think it was too long ago and too different and difficult of a time to hold any real grudges these days what countries did so long ago.

You won't buy German cars or goods because of their behavior in WWII but have no problems buying Japanese goods? If you delve into what Imperialist Japan was like and did at the time you would most likely see they were just as bad if not worse then the ****'s during WWII. Look up Unit 731 and its history and how many innocent Chinese and Russian civilians were subjected to some of the worst sadistic human rights violations and torture ever committed and what normally happened to captured American or allied POWs in Japanese controlled territory or the dropping and spreading of the plague and other attacks that targeted and killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens. It is sickening reading about the atrocities committed by Imperialist Japan during WWII against several countries but Japan now is completely different from Imperialist Japan during and before WWII and they have completely changed and are one of our most important and loyal allies and I have no problem buying their products.



If these allegations are true against Toyota then they should be ashamed of themselves and do what they need to do to make it right. They are way too successful and make entirely too much money to be treating some of their workforce like this and even though I am generally not very supportive of the way most unions operate and the effect they have this is the situation where they are generally necessary when a corporation treats some of its workforce like that. They are better off just paying all its workforce fair wages under safe and fair working conditions instead of ignoring it and fighting it and suffer a possible public backlash. If this is true and a extremely successful company like Toyota continues to have many severely underpaid workers that work under harsh and unfair conditions and demands then that will negatively effect my opinion of Toyota and may effect if I want to give them my business in the future. If it is true Toyota should just make it right.

babyGS3

how fast we forget that japan did bomb hawaii and caused the death of many servicemen and civillians... sure we got even and ended the war when we dropped the atom bomb.

I know many chinese people from where I was from who would never buy a Lexus or other japanese product because of these "atrocities" that were committed against them by the Japanese.

Louis Vuitton has downplayed their **** involvement

All huge companies play some sort of heinous role. the US is not exempt.


should we be so self-righteous as to judge these people for their transgressions?

gshb

who cares? if you have such a bleeding heart then dont buy anything from china, india, and any third world country. practically everyone there works in poor conditions. the shirt youre wearing was probably sewn by a schoolkid in india.

pisaykotik

First of all, it's Filipino.

I don't believe that many Filipinos still think that way towards the Japanese. One reason is that only very few (<5%) of the population now are old enough to be alive during WWII. Second, today's Japan isn't the same as the Imperialist Japan as UDel has said, in fact Japan has been helping the Philippines for many decades now. Just my $0.02.

Back to the topic, if this is actually true then Toyota needs to do whatever has to be done to make it right.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, lets not care, lets not try and do anythiing about it. Great attitude.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, maybe you're right, and maybe the Germans today are not the same as they were 60 years ago, but I tend to think they are still the same, just afraid to show their real face. Again, its kind of hard to believe otherwise when you grew up in a country that is to this day full of signs of war, multiple memorials in every city, mass graves, horror stories told by your grand parents, and so on. And if you think I'm bad you should see my grandpa... He actually served in the Russian Army during WW2, and he stayed in the millitary well after the war was over, while occupying Berlin. He has witnessed what the Germans did, and to this day he hates them with a passion. When he was here in the US a few years ago, visiting us, we took him to a restaurant, and there were some Germans there that were talking to each other in German. My grandpa started stalking them, lol. I can only imagine what he did to them in Berlin.


Well, you're right, and I dont blame many Chinese and Koreans for refusing to buy Japanese products. But as far as for me, I'll be brutally honest with you, whatever Japan did in China and Korea didnt affect me enough to feel as strongly about it as what Germans did to my country. War hurts more when its closer to home, you know?


I'd like to see Toyota officially address this issue. Im sure however they will try and deny and hide the facts as much as possible.