I'm surprised no one mentioned that we citizens of the United States used Slave Labor until the 13th amendment to the Constitution.
All of South America had slave labor as well as the UK, Middle East, South East Asia, Everywhere.

 

Are you seriously trying to quote Wikipedia as an authoritative source? That may be why so many things that you've said are inaccurate.

Ferdinand Porsche and Mr. Piech were released after paying a "bail" which was basically a ransom.

Anecdotes do not constitute evidence. My point was that your entire post was factually erroneous.

The distinction makes no difference. My point was that you said BMW had failed at manufacturing airplanes during WWII. You're saying it here again. Show me some evidence.

 

That is true, but the difference is most Americans actually opposed slave labor, and that was one of the biggest reasons why we had the civil war and freed these slaves almost two centuries ago. And most of these slaves actually had more freedom in the US than they had in Africa, afterall these slaves were sold to Americans by Africans, so they were never free to begin with. Either way, it was a horrible, shameful period in our history, but when it happens in 21st century, there's just no excuse.

 

Like 1SICK said, I need more details. Also, llamaboiz is correct. People (especially the author of this article) don't understand the Japanese culture. Success means *everything* to the Japanese. If you're not a success, you're a failure. Success comes at all costs. Work comes before family. Yes. it's *that* important. Some Japanese workers, including executives often work 14, 16, or even 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, and their proud to do it because they know they're working toward success.
Underpaid? What does that mean? Mexican laborers make 5 bucks a day, are they underpaid?
Where is the connection between the death of a worker and a "sweatshop"? Isolated case, maybe, but don't go blasting Toyota just because some foreign court "ruled" the death of a Japanese worker "overworked".
I'm boycotting Mcdonalds because they continually serve coffee that's too hot! The courts said so, and I believe them.

 

That is all up to interpretation, translation is a difficult thing and how ones translates the verdict will influence "your" way of thinking. The way it is written here is not that they are awarding money for him being overworked, more so the widow is looking for compesation for work not allegedly not paid for. Toyata is a good company that has a workers union which is not common over here and they deal with any unfair dealings. Just like America there are money grabers and Toyota is a company that puts its employees first, This is widely know here in Japan. I am not saying that the wife is a money graber, but blameing a company for someones death either tells me two things, #1 the person concerned was not in life insurance or #2 they had something against Toyota.

As for slave labour here, that is utterly crap, this is no third world country where a major corporation can get away with thing like they are saying. People get some sense, something like this can not sneak under the radar like you think.

 

Alot of stuff FAR worse than slave labor went on during WW2 under Japanses rule and don't tell me about this generation is not the same people who were fighting in WW2. These are the exactly the same people. Not only are the top brass of the country and major companies including Toyota the same old people who were at ripe old age of combatants in WW2, unlike Germany which as a country and people came - certainly much much much more than Japanese - clean about their atrocities while Japanese deny all their atrocities in the history textbooks and prime minister still goes to vow his head to the tombs of WW2 war criminals every chance he has. I don't see Angela Merkel going to **** monument and pay her respect not to mention there aren't any **** monument anywhere in Germany to begin with. And you will see in German history textbook list killing 6million jews and other atrocities by ***** while Japanese textbook - which by the way is not written by some private company like prentice hall or etc in US rather approved by Japanese government - whitewash the atrocities of Japan during WW2. People who does not learn from past - and come clean - bound to repeat the mistake of the past. At least third world countries doesn't have enough power to hurt other people. Japan has done alot worse than slave labor under the radar in its recent history and from what they've been doing and not doing - with everything from glossing war criminals and textbooks - I wouldn't put Japan/Japanese and Japanese companies past doing same thing and worse now and in the future

 

Please don't get too far off-topic with the replies from now on, this is NOT a thread about Japanese versus German atrocities in WW II & their attitudes about that now etc. - Do NOT debate that in this thread - if you want to reply, do it via pm.

Please turn the focus back on what Toyota & other companies are doing, or might be doing NOW with their labor practices instead, which is what the OP is about. Thanks.

Posts that go too far off the OP topic will be removed, and/or the thread closed.

 

But past behavior is a good indicator of what's happening and what's to come. Past murderer - and specially the one who's unrepentant - are more likely to be a murderer now and in the future.

 

Fair enough, but we don't want debates of political nature, which is what this thread might turn into now, to be in Car Chat, we have a forum for that - the Debate Forum.

So this is my last reminder before I have to remove posts or close this thread. Anyone who feel compelled to reply to the above post, please do it via pm, or start your own topic regarding this in the Debate Forum, thanks.

 

I don't need to contemplate Japanese culture if that is the thought you offer up in any way shape or form to justify human abuse assuming the article is accurate.

It just won't wash with majority of people, they will view it as horrible, which it is if true.

 

Well see, Im personally not so much concerned about the death of Mr. Kenichi Uchino, as unfortunate as it is, there are overworked employees everywhere, especially in the USA. Its a standard corporate practice to abuse their employees, and the 8 hour working day law in the US only applies to union workers and low wage hourly employees. But look at anyone with more or less higher salary, and I dont mean ridiculously high salary, but anyone with 50k a year and up. These people are working 10 hours an up. I'm in the construction business, and most of the general contractors in NYC you call, the employees are in the offices from 7:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, while only getting paid their standard "8 hour" salary. There were actually a couple of lawsuits with that regard, and I dont know the details, but appartently thanks to our obnoxious **** bastard mayor Michael Bloomberg, there's now a law in NYC that corporation have the right to make their "key" employees work extra hours without extra pay. Ridiculous if you ask me. Who knows how many Americans die or have health issues due to being overworked. When you're working 12 hours a day, and then spending several hours to travel, you're bound to have problems.

I also know what you mean about chasing success, and that doesn't apply to only Japan, believe me. Back in my younger years, I was working for this company, and I volunteered to work for free on saturdays to learn the industry, and did so for several years. I still often work countless hours, but nowadays I work for myself, so its a bit different.

But my main concern, is Toyotas link to slave labor in third world countries. I'd like to see more info on that, and I hope it turns out to be untrue. Its a complicated issue, and this article doesnt have enough information to make a clear judgement. There are many large corporations worldwide that are directly or indirectly linked to labor abuse in third world countries, and most of these corporations are probably American. For instance it is well known that Nike uses child labor in third world coutries to manufacture their products.

But it also matters whether the company is directly or indirectly linked to this labor abuse... For example, I do buy certain materials and hardware for my business from a supplies that brings it from China. I do not have the knowledge how or where or by whom these materials are manufactured, and whether any labor abuse occurs during the manufacturing. So if Toyota buys some of their parts from a supplier that is linked to labor abuse, then its one thing... Toyota may not even be aware of that. But if Toyota is directly linked to it, then its a whole different story, and then they should be kicked out of the US and never allowed to conduct business here.

 

Compared with many developed countries, Americans are the ones "overworked". Some countries use a standard of 32 hours a week and get many weeks of vacation a year. Many Americans, like myself, work 60 hours a week with 1 week off a year.

I hope however, that Toyota isn't knowingly treating workers as described in the OP. It is though, a worldwide problem used to produce cheap products to compete. The clothes on our backs were most likely made by low wage overworked people. Notice that only about 10% of what we buy is American made? Most manufacturing businesses would be out of business if they were forced to pay good American wages and benefits.

 

Thanks, I think. I don't believe it's cynical, just reality.

However, even though we can find flaws or even atrocities in prior behavior, I prefer to look at the world and people NOW than as it has been decades, centuries or millennia ago.

Germany and Japan are models of 'civilized' countries today, and whole countries should not be dismissed because of some corruption or bad company practices.

Toyota may take a PR black eye from this, but I doubt it. Remember Kathy-Lee Gifford and sweat shops? She now does the Today show in the late mornings. Nike's had their share of criticism but seem to be doing just fine, etc.

 

And Wal*Mart is still the world's largest retailer while being well associated with getting their products from cheap labor sources.

People care about one thing. A good bargain.

 

And this is the whole point. Toyota is not going to suffer one bit from this whether true or not. I do believe that all these large companies do things like this to some degree. The fact is no matter how the world and every individual says they care about human rights and what not, there are very few individuals that will actually do something about it by either protest, government lobby, or boycott. The rest will speak their mind and continue to buy the products. There will be a hand full of people that will stop buying a Toyota product because of this, but the majority will just file it in the back of their mind and continue on with life as it always has been. That is just the world today.

Personally, I have nothing against cheap labor as long as the laborer is willing. Slave labor is different, and if they are holding the passports hostage that is wrong. However, we are not talking about Toyota in Japan, but it appears to be the association that Toyota has with suppliers and other sub contractors that are using these practices. Toyota in this case is simply turning a blind eye.

Personally, I don't really care one way or another. The only thing I'd like to see in discussions like this is consistency. If you are going to blast one company like Walmart, or Hyundai or whatever for similar sketchy practices you have to blast them all. Including Toyota. I'll continue to buy products from them all as long as they have what I want and need. That is just me though, but I haven't blasted any of those other companies for those practices so I'm being consistent.