Prius vs Camry Hybrid
06-30-08, 09:53 AM
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Prius vs Camry Hybrid
via edmunds.com. nice little video on the page
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
Guy walks into a Toyota dealer — sounds like a joke so far, right? Not quite.
Guy walks into a Toyota dealer looking for a 2008 Toyota Prius. He's heard about hybrids for awhile now, and the Prius is one he knows by name. He vaguely recalls some celebrity bragging about taking one to the Academy Awards instead of a limo, and then there was that South Park episode, "Smug Alert" a couple of years back. And didn't Al Gore's own son make headlines for getting busted doing 100 mph in his Prius?
Something like that. Beyond the hype, Guy's never really given hybrid cars much thought, much less gone looking for one. And even though he can afford a decent-size car or SUV, the price of gasoline has him looking for fuel economy in a serious way.
And there on the showroom floor, Guy sees a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid for almost the same amount of money as a Prius. Now what?
Better Late Than Never
A lot of late-adopters like this guy are jumping into the hybrid market, and they're finding that there's more to choose from than just several different colors of Prius. So what's the difference between the dedicated hybrid like the Prius and a more conventional car like the Camry that just happens to be a hybrid? What do you get? And what do you give up?
We know what you're thinking, so let's clear this up. We've decided to pit the 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid and the 2008 Toyota Prius against each other because each has won one of our comparison tests in its own right. The Camry Hybrid beat the Nissan Altima Hybrid and the Saturn Aura Green Line in our 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test, while the Toyota Prius bested the Honda Civic Hybrid in a 2006 shoot-out.
This shouldn't be a surprise, as Toyota takes this hybrid thing very seriously and is doing its best to own the concept in the mind of consumers. Toyota has made a formal commitment to spread hybrid technology throughout its entire lineup. Its Hybrid Synergy Drive is also a full hybrid system that has sufficient electric motor and battery capacity for extended engine-off running, which enhances both fuel savings and your impression of its magical properties.
The EPA classifies both the Prius and the Camry Hybrid as midsize cars, and the prices aren't that far apart either. This 2008 Toyota Prius is kitted out with the $4,550 No. 6 option package plus floor mats and totals $28,224. This 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid has no options but floor mats and a security system and comes in at $26,418. Sure, the Camry costs almost $2,000 less, but it doesn't have the leather seats, navigation system, Bluetooth and six-CD changer found in the well-equipped Prius.
Hyper Mileage
If we restrict our analysis to EPA fuel economy figures alone, the Prius triumphs before we ever start. Its 48 mpg city and 45 highway fuel economy (46 mpg combined) is the best you can buy from anyone right now.
The Camry Hybrid, on the other hand, is rated at 33 mpg in the city and 34 mpg on the highway. While this doesn't look impressive next to a Prius, the Camry Hybrid's 34 mpg combined rating is higher than any popular compact — higher than a 2008 Honda Civic (29 mpg), a 2009 Toyota Corolla (30 mpg) and even a 2008 Toyota Yaris (31 mpg).
But we didn't just take the EPA's word for the fuel economy of the Prius and Camry Hybrid. In two weeks of mixed driving, we rang up an average of 43.8 mpg in the Prius and 32.7 mpg in the Camry Hybrid. At that rate, driving 15,000 miles per year, the Prius uses 9.7 fewer gallons per month — a savings of $40 per month at today's pump prices.
Since hybrids make their best fuel economy in the city, where regenerative braking and low-speed conditions conducive to electric-only operation provide the big benefits, we took these cars on our own loop through the city and suburbs — a two-lap, 190-mile tour of Orange County, California. Our two drivers traded off at the halfway point to cancel out any driving style effects.
Our nominal speeds ranged from 30-55 mph, but a plethora of traffic signals kept the average down to 28 mph. The result: 51.9 mpg for the Prius and an impressive 41.8 mpg for the Camry Hybrid. And we weren't even using "hypermiler" techniques.
Low-Intensity Workout
With fuel-efficiency like this, you'd figure that performance would suffer. And you'd be mostly right.
Neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid feels like a slug in town, as the stout nature of torque from an electric motor at low rpm gets each up to 30 mph in about 3.5 seconds. But getting to 60 mph and beyond involves the gas engine, and here the 76-horsepower 1.5-liter inline-4 of the Prius compromises its acceleration. Once you factor in the 28 hp output of the battery pack (which determines the total power available — not the theoretical output of the electric motor), you have 104 hp, so getting to 60 mph eats up 10.4 seconds and makes short-ramp freeway merges more entertaining than you might prefer.
The Camry's Atkinson-cycle engine is also tuned for efficiency, but it makes 147 hp from its 2.4-liter inline-4. Additional boost from the electric motor brings the net total to 187 horses, so the Camry Hybrid trots to 60 mph in 8.3 seconds, which feels normal instead of slow.
But you must (or should) also remember that a hybrid powertrain also affects performance in other ways. Driving with the engine off requires electric power steering, so neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid has great steering feel, nor communicates very much about the car's dynamics to the driver.
Meanwhile, both cars needed about 6 feet more than their non-hybrid counterparts to stop from 60 mph, as the Prius used 128 feet and the Camry Hybrid required 134 feet. (We're not sure if heavier weight or low-rolling-resistance tires is the true culprit.) Low-intensity stops around town in both cars were accompanied by a distinctive whine from the regenerative braking system, and the transition from regen braking to mechanical braking also was noticeable, especially in the Prius.
Both these cars have stability control (it comes standard on the Camry Hybrid but is optional on the Prius), and though the threshold of intervention is relatively low for the Camry, it still manages a respectable 0.75g of lateral grip. The intervention of the stability control in the Prius seems erratic — perhaps because the system is modulating through rear drum brakes instead of the Camry's standard rear discs — and the Prius chalks up just 0.71g around the skid pad.
In the real world, neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid is very inspiring to drive, but both feel competent and secure in daily use. The Camry Hybrid's ride is definitely the quieter and softer of the two, although perhaps a little too soft and buoyant in the estimation of some of us because of insufficient damping.
Not Really the Same Size Class
Toyota is fond of pointing out that the EPA classifies the 2008 Prius as a midsize car, just like the Camry. But the Prius is much closer in size to a 2008 Toyota Corolla compact than a midsize Camry. Oh sure, the Prius' 106.3-inch wheelbase technically helps maximize interior volume, and its odd peaked roof gives it a slight advantage in front headroom of 0.3 inch over the Camry. But the plain fact is the Prius is 3-4 inches narrower than the Camry, inside and out, and we can feel it the moment we sit in the cars.
Compounding the cramped feel of the Prius is a driving position that's sized for shorter drivers. The steering wheel is set low and far away, and the seat is positioned a little bit high and there's no height adjustment. The net result is a steering wheel that's too far away and too close to the knees of anyone of above-average height.
Meanwhile, the Camry Hybrid comes with a steering wheel with telescopic adjustment plus a four-way power-adjustable driver seat with height adjustment, so we can move things around just how we like and get comfy. We could sit here all day.
Now Featuring...
Besides the standard stability control, telescopic steering wheel and the adjustable driver seat, the Camry Hybrid has other features going for it. It also comes with dual-zone automatic climate control (with easy-to-use adjustment ***** in plain sight) and dedicated vents for the rear-seat passengers. Not so in the Prius. An auxiliary jack for an MP3 player is standard on the Camry but optional on the Prius. And the Camry Hybrid is your only choice if you want an optional sunroof.
And while the Prius is also known for bringing high-tech features like Bluetooth and a smart key to the smaller car world, these items are package options — package options you can get in the Camry Hybrid, too. Still, the Prius is the only small car that offers options such as a back-up camera (not that it needs it) and HID headlights.
Make Your Choice
Here we have two very different choices, despite their apparent similarities. The Prius is a dedicated hybrid, built to sacrifice some comfort and utility for the pure performance of great mpg. Moreover, it looks unique both outside and in, which enhances the thrill of extreme fuel-efficiency. It's the purist's choice when it comes to hybrids. The trouble is, you have to sacrifice some comfort and convenience, just like you would in a sports car.
Meanwhile, the Camry Hybrid is clearly superior as a car, and it offers a kind of high-performance comfort and convenience. The trouble is, its hybrid technology is almost irrelevant to the car's character, and it looks and behaves almost like any other Camry. So what you've got is pure Camry, and that's a little bit boring.
Sure, it is possible to outfit a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid so it costs more than a loaded 2008 Toyota Prius, or you can leave options off the Prius and undercut the base Camry Hybrid price. And the Prius' better fuel economy might tip the scales in the favor of the 2008 Toyota Prius for many people.
But not for us. At the end of the day, the 2008 Toyota Prius might deliver stellar fuel economy, but like a lot of highly focused cars, it imposes compromises we're unwilling to make.
We'll take the 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid, and we're not joking. The extra $40 monthly fuel savings the Prius provides isn't enough to lure us away from a more spacious, well-equipped true midsize sedan with normal styling and a familiar interior layout.
Guy walks into a Toyota dealer looking for a 2008 Toyota Prius. He's heard about hybrids for awhile now, and the Prius is one he knows by name. He vaguely recalls some celebrity bragging about taking one to the Academy Awards instead of a limo, and then there was that South Park episode, "Smug Alert" a couple of years back. And didn't Al Gore's own son make headlines for getting busted doing 100 mph in his Prius?
Something like that. Beyond the hype, Guy's never really given hybrid cars much thought, much less gone looking for one. And even though he can afford a decent-size car or SUV, the price of gasoline has him looking for fuel economy in a serious way.
And there on the showroom floor, Guy sees a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid for almost the same amount of money as a Prius. Now what?
Better Late Than Never
A lot of late-adopters like this guy are jumping into the hybrid market, and they're finding that there's more to choose from than just several different colors of Prius. So what's the difference between the dedicated hybrid like the Prius and a more conventional car like the Camry that just happens to be a hybrid? What do you get? And what do you give up?
We know what you're thinking, so let's clear this up. We've decided to pit the 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid and the 2008 Toyota Prius against each other because each has won one of our comparison tests in its own right. The Camry Hybrid beat the Nissan Altima Hybrid and the Saturn Aura Green Line in our 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test, while the Toyota Prius bested the Honda Civic Hybrid in a 2006 shoot-out.
This shouldn't be a surprise, as Toyota takes this hybrid thing very seriously and is doing its best to own the concept in the mind of consumers. Toyota has made a formal commitment to spread hybrid technology throughout its entire lineup. Its Hybrid Synergy Drive is also a full hybrid system that has sufficient electric motor and battery capacity for extended engine-off running, which enhances both fuel savings and your impression of its magical properties.
The EPA classifies both the Prius and the Camry Hybrid as midsize cars, and the prices aren't that far apart either. This 2008 Toyota Prius is kitted out with the $4,550 No. 6 option package plus floor mats and totals $28,224. This 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid has no options but floor mats and a security system and comes in at $26,418. Sure, the Camry costs almost $2,000 less, but it doesn't have the leather seats, navigation system, Bluetooth and six-CD changer found in the well-equipped Prius.
Hyper Mileage
If we restrict our analysis to EPA fuel economy figures alone, the Prius triumphs before we ever start. Its 48 mpg city and 45 highway fuel economy (46 mpg combined) is the best you can buy from anyone right now.
The Camry Hybrid, on the other hand, is rated at 33 mpg in the city and 34 mpg on the highway. While this doesn't look impressive next to a Prius, the Camry Hybrid's 34 mpg combined rating is higher than any popular compact — higher than a 2008 Honda Civic (29 mpg), a 2009 Toyota Corolla (30 mpg) and even a 2008 Toyota Yaris (31 mpg).
But we didn't just take the EPA's word for the fuel economy of the Prius and Camry Hybrid. In two weeks of mixed driving, we rang up an average of 43.8 mpg in the Prius and 32.7 mpg in the Camry Hybrid. At that rate, driving 15,000 miles per year, the Prius uses 9.7 fewer gallons per month — a savings of $40 per month at today's pump prices.
Since hybrids make their best fuel economy in the city, where regenerative braking and low-speed conditions conducive to electric-only operation provide the big benefits, we took these cars on our own loop through the city and suburbs — a two-lap, 190-mile tour of Orange County, California. Our two drivers traded off at the halfway point to cancel out any driving style effects.
Our nominal speeds ranged from 30-55 mph, but a plethora of traffic signals kept the average down to 28 mph. The result: 51.9 mpg for the Prius and an impressive 41.8 mpg for the Camry Hybrid. And we weren't even using "hypermiler" techniques.
Low-Intensity Workout
With fuel-efficiency like this, you'd figure that performance would suffer. And you'd be mostly right.
Neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid feels like a slug in town, as the stout nature of torque from an electric motor at low rpm gets each up to 30 mph in about 3.5 seconds. But getting to 60 mph and beyond involves the gas engine, and here the 76-horsepower 1.5-liter inline-4 of the Prius compromises its acceleration. Once you factor in the 28 hp output of the battery pack (which determines the total power available — not the theoretical output of the electric motor), you have 104 hp, so getting to 60 mph eats up 10.4 seconds and makes short-ramp freeway merges more entertaining than you might prefer.
The Camry's Atkinson-cycle engine is also tuned for efficiency, but it makes 147 hp from its 2.4-liter inline-4. Additional boost from the electric motor brings the net total to 187 horses, so the Camry Hybrid trots to 60 mph in 8.3 seconds, which feels normal instead of slow.
But you must (or should) also remember that a hybrid powertrain also affects performance in other ways. Driving with the engine off requires electric power steering, so neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid has great steering feel, nor communicates very much about the car's dynamics to the driver.
Meanwhile, both cars needed about 6 feet more than their non-hybrid counterparts to stop from 60 mph, as the Prius used 128 feet and the Camry Hybrid required 134 feet. (We're not sure if heavier weight or low-rolling-resistance tires is the true culprit.) Low-intensity stops around town in both cars were accompanied by a distinctive whine from the regenerative braking system, and the transition from regen braking to mechanical braking also was noticeable, especially in the Prius.
Both these cars have stability control (it comes standard on the Camry Hybrid but is optional on the Prius), and though the threshold of intervention is relatively low for the Camry, it still manages a respectable 0.75g of lateral grip. The intervention of the stability control in the Prius seems erratic — perhaps because the system is modulating through rear drum brakes instead of the Camry's standard rear discs — and the Prius chalks up just 0.71g around the skid pad.
In the real world, neither the Prius nor the Camry Hybrid is very inspiring to drive, but both feel competent and secure in daily use. The Camry Hybrid's ride is definitely the quieter and softer of the two, although perhaps a little too soft and buoyant in the estimation of some of us because of insufficient damping.
Not Really the Same Size Class
Toyota is fond of pointing out that the EPA classifies the 2008 Prius as a midsize car, just like the Camry. But the Prius is much closer in size to a 2008 Toyota Corolla compact than a midsize Camry. Oh sure, the Prius' 106.3-inch wheelbase technically helps maximize interior volume, and its odd peaked roof gives it a slight advantage in front headroom of 0.3 inch over the Camry. But the plain fact is the Prius is 3-4 inches narrower than the Camry, inside and out, and we can feel it the moment we sit in the cars.
Compounding the cramped feel of the Prius is a driving position that's sized for shorter drivers. The steering wheel is set low and far away, and the seat is positioned a little bit high and there's no height adjustment. The net result is a steering wheel that's too far away and too close to the knees of anyone of above-average height.
Meanwhile, the Camry Hybrid comes with a steering wheel with telescopic adjustment plus a four-way power-adjustable driver seat with height adjustment, so we can move things around just how we like and get comfy. We could sit here all day.
Now Featuring...
Besides the standard stability control, telescopic steering wheel and the adjustable driver seat, the Camry Hybrid has other features going for it. It also comes with dual-zone automatic climate control (with easy-to-use adjustment ***** in plain sight) and dedicated vents for the rear-seat passengers. Not so in the Prius. An auxiliary jack for an MP3 player is standard on the Camry but optional on the Prius. And the Camry Hybrid is your only choice if you want an optional sunroof.
And while the Prius is also known for bringing high-tech features like Bluetooth and a smart key to the smaller car world, these items are package options — package options you can get in the Camry Hybrid, too. Still, the Prius is the only small car that offers options such as a back-up camera (not that it needs it) and HID headlights.
Make Your Choice
Here we have two very different choices, despite their apparent similarities. The Prius is a dedicated hybrid, built to sacrifice some comfort and utility for the pure performance of great mpg. Moreover, it looks unique both outside and in, which enhances the thrill of extreme fuel-efficiency. It's the purist's choice when it comes to hybrids. The trouble is, you have to sacrifice some comfort and convenience, just like you would in a sports car.
Meanwhile, the Camry Hybrid is clearly superior as a car, and it offers a kind of high-performance comfort and convenience. The trouble is, its hybrid technology is almost irrelevant to the car's character, and it looks and behaves almost like any other Camry. So what you've got is pure Camry, and that's a little bit boring.
Sure, it is possible to outfit a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid so it costs more than a loaded 2008 Toyota Prius, or you can leave options off the Prius and undercut the base Camry Hybrid price. And the Prius' better fuel economy might tip the scales in the favor of the 2008 Toyota Prius for many people.
But not for us. At the end of the day, the 2008 Toyota Prius might deliver stellar fuel economy, but like a lot of highly focused cars, it imposes compromises we're unwilling to make.
We'll take the 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid, and we're not joking. The extra $40 monthly fuel savings the Prius provides isn't enough to lure us away from a more spacious, well-equipped true midsize sedan with normal styling and a familiar interior layout.
06-30-08, 09:54 AM
#2
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spoiler: the prius lost, but i have some gripes with the video.
1) they didnt take into account that the camry is 6K more expensive base to base.
2) they didnt take into account the small trunk space that limits day to day functionality.
3) people who buy the prius dont care if it has different controls and a weird layout.
1) they didnt take into account that the camry is 6K more expensive base to base.
2) they didnt take into account the small trunk space that limits day to day functionality.
3) people who buy the prius dont care if it has different controls and a weird layout.
06-30-08, 10:05 AM
#3
Between the two, I'd take the Camry. It's more subdued with its styling, a bit faster, and more spacious; and definitely less hyped.
Although the Prius can save more fuel, I still find it overpriced for its size. I've always seen it as a Hybrid Corolla for its size, and should be prices approx $4-5k more than the Corolla, not $10k.
The Camry Hybrid price is justifiable because of both fuel consumption and larger passenger capacity, with not-so-high of a price gap from a similarly-equipped non-hybrid I-4 Camry.
Although the Prius can save more fuel, I still find it overpriced for its size. I've always seen it as a Hybrid Corolla for its size, and should be prices approx $4-5k more than the Corolla, not $10k.
The Camry Hybrid price is justifiable because of both fuel consumption and larger passenger capacity, with not-so-high of a price gap from a similarly-equipped non-hybrid I-4 Camry.
06-30-08, 10:10 AM
#4
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pretty good info tho.
as far as the the Prius being closer to the size of a Corolla -- TOTAL BS!!!! -- that thing is HUGE inside. I'm 6 ft and with the drivers seat adjusted for me there's still a ton of leg room in the back seat.
REALLY looking forward to the next gen to see what Toyota comes up with. Hoping they keep the same base price + a decent all electric range (similar to the Volt, 40 or 50 miles).
...right - a lot of people try to compare the very base stripped Camry to a Hybrid Camry which comes basically fully loaded and wonder why the price difference is so great.
as far as the the Prius being closer to the size of a Corolla -- TOTAL BS!!!! -- that thing is HUGE inside. I'm 6 ft and with the drivers seat adjusted for me there's still a ton of leg room in the back seat.
REALLY looking forward to the next gen to see what Toyota comes up with. Hoping they keep the same base price + a decent all electric range (similar to the Volt, 40 or 50 miles).
...right - a lot of people try to compare the very base stripped Camry to a Hybrid Camry which comes basically fully loaded and wonder why the price difference is so great.
06-30-08, 10:16 AM
#5
I think Phil is onto something, why doesn't Toyota just make a Corolla hybrid? With 40 mpg (combined) and around $18k this car will clean up the house!!
The reason why Prius is $10k higher than the Corolla is because it doesn't share major components with the later like the way regular and hybrid Camries do. So in other words, maybe the Prius is slotted as a Corolla hybrid but in reality it is not.
The reason why Prius is $10k higher than the Corolla is because it doesn't share major components with the later like the way regular and hybrid Camries do. So in other words, maybe the Prius is slotted as a Corolla hybrid but in reality it is not.
06-30-08, 12:53 PM
#7
I'd take the Camry as well. If the rumored gas price in 2010 is really going to be $8-$10 I'll be in a hybrid real soon. Right now the Camry is my top choice as the Lexus hybrids are nice, but expensive. Hopefully the other manufactures as well as Toyota offers more choices in 2010. Honda should bring back the Accord hybrid as well.
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06-30-08, 02:01 PM
#8
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A comparison I didn't read... I'd rather have a root canal instead of buying either. 
06-30-08, 02:44 PM
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how is the prius 10K more than the corolla? give me a break.
$15,250 for a base corolla. low 20s for the prius.
id probably take the camry too...but...i feel they didnt give the prius a good shot at winning
$15,250 for a base corolla. low 20s for the prius.
id probably take the camry too...but...i feel they didnt give the prius a good shot at winning
06-30-08, 04:07 PM
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My experience is that the cars get much better mileage on the highway than in stop and go driving, contrary to what they wrote. I usually get 38-42 on the highway and 32-34 in stop and go with my Camry Hybrid.
06-30-08, 07:46 PM
#12
That's the first thing that came to mind when I saw this thread title. Edmunds, sigh, often ignores these inconvenient truths. As for which or either, personally it would depend on what my requirements are at the time.
06-30-08, 08:59 PM
#13
The Prius likely costs more b/c (1) it's the fuel economy leader and thus commands a higher markup, and (2) it has more goodies. When both are fully loaded, the Prius has a few extra gadgets not available on the Camry Hybrid: HID headlights, rearview backup camera, fog lights, rear wiper, digital speedometer, coolant heat reservoir (keeps antifreeze hot between trips), and bladder (in gas tank - collapses as fuel is consumed, eliminating free space into which gasoline can evaporate, reducing outgassing when refueling). On the other hand, the Camry Hybrid has a driver's seat with lumbar support (Prius seat is back-hostile on long drives), a moonroof, dual-zone climate ctl, etc. Personally, I'd prefer the Prius due to the high-tech interior (digital speedo in center of dash, joystick shifter, etc.), better fuel economy, and practical hatchback. However, the camry is going to be more comfortable, quieter, and safer in a crash due to higher mass and greater width.
07-01-08, 03:43 AM
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I don't recall why, but I was previously under the impression that the Camry Hybrid was a bit of a flop as far as being a worthwhile hybrid option. This article puts forth some interesting points that may not have been considered previously.
I'd probably opt for the Camry Hybrid over the Prius if I were judging based on the above comparisons.
I'd probably opt for the Camry Hybrid over the Prius if I were judging based on the above comparisons.
07-01-08, 08:32 AM
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I'm assuming that with the supposed 2.5L 4 cylinder coming it will be put in the Camry hybrid. Though I guess we're still waiting for Highlander and RXh to get the 3.5L. Anyway, the 2.4L is long in the tooth and I think the 2.5L could increase efficieny. What I don't understand it why Toyota direct inject these small motors and thus weaken the argument the hybrids lack power and also maxamize every drop of fuel.