llamaboiz

honestly i think this is good, look at the old muscle cars of the late 60's early 70's, todays hi-power cars put out the same hp and double the mileage of the muscle era cars, this forces companies to develop new technologies... the unfortunate thing is thou the damm safety standards they pack into cars today, thats just all added weight... makes me wanna go back to a 72 corolla 3T/18R-G head w/duals, light weight + power = good mpg and a FUN TIME

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You don't need laws to improve economy and efficiency. Laws generally don't succeed in achieving the real goal here - reduce the need for oil as a transportation fuel. It has been ineffective so far, and believing now it will suddenly work is foolish at best.

If people value fuel economy, manufacturers will compete to be best in class. People haven't valued fuel economy since the mid 80's. With the current price of gasoline, there's been quite a resurgence in fuel economy advertising.

As another fine example - one of the biggest reasons cars are so heavy these days is because meeting the supplemental restraint laws takes weight or money. The manufacturers have all opted for added weight because the cost of lightweight materials allowing them to meet these standards mean people can't afford the vehicles. If we had the OPTION of choosing whether we had those supplemental restraints (and let's not open that can of worms anymore than this), we could CHOOSE to have better fuel economy simply by having a lighter weight car. I chose a hardtop Supra because it is lighter and stiffer than the targa model, and it performs in the areas important to me much better than the alternative.

So, by having set these standards, the government is requiring the manufacturers to produce fewer options, and forcing the consumers to pick from what they believe is best for you. This sounds a lot like socialism and communism to me.

When California did this with smog, an entire generation of "new" hot rods were born of very old cars with VINs that didn't have to meet these requirements. We'll see the same thing going forward with the new CAFE. Entrepreneurs will be buying older cars, restoring them, and selling them to willing buyers because these cars won't be limited the way the new cars are.

Finally, "let the market decide" is going to happen no matter what the government mandates. That's why all the CAFE cars sat on showroom floors and collected dust in the latter part of the 80's when everyone discovered the SUV. Only the price of oil will truly force efficiency, the same way it did in the 70's.

Vlad_Stein

First of all, these are not 5mpg cars...
Second of all, your opinion sounds a lot like socialism... a slippery slope into endless meddling with people's lives, based on (flawed) assumption that government can and will do a better job of managing their lives than the people themselves.
If you can't pay for a 5mpg car (even if you have the money), then how about the following questions?
* Can one drive more than a preset number of miles a year? Because what really matters is how much oil you use, not how efficiently you use it. If one has a collectible car that gets 5mpg, but is driven 500mi/year, it will consume 5 times less gas than a Prius that is driven 25Kmi/year.
* Should one be allowed to tow things, or haul heavy loads?
* What about electricity usage? Can you cook at home without screwing America?
* What about thermostat settings in your house / apartment? Should they be centrally set by the Dept of Energy?
* What about having too many clothes, electronic appliances, shoes, etc.? Production, distribution and disposal of these things all cause harm to the environment and consume energy.


Sounds to me you are looking for initial elements of infinite justice here - which, in its final form looks like skinny people with shaved heads behind razor wire, being told through a megaphone what to do.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well boys, guess whats going to happen? There are two thing that can happen really.

1) BMW (and other luxury makers) get rid of V8's, V10's, V12, etc, and start making gutless 4bangers. But that doesn't work, because nobody wants a Luxury car with half the engine.

2) BMW (and other luxury makers) will keep making fuel thirsty V8, V10's, V12's, and pay whatever fines that the CAFE ****'s will come up with. Of course, these fines will be passed onto the buyers. Just another tax on top of a tax, ahhh what can you expect from the morons in the government.

Another thing that manufacturers like BMW could possibly do, is reduce the power and increase fuel economy of an engine from the factory, to pass CAFE standards, but allow for an easy and affordable way to modify the engine to produce the right amount of power to those who dont care about fuel economy. Like an ECU reflash or something...

Nextourer

Yeah except that BMW does have diesels that get great mileage. Wouldn't you like a 335d with Corolla mileage? I wouldn't mind!

MINI Coopers get decent mileage. Not bad (they qualify for a $1,000 GST rebate, same as a Yaris) but that's just the Cooper, not the Cooper S.

Indio

iTrader: (1)

At this point it doesn't matter how must the US cuts back on oil consumption, China and India are emerging nations with a huge thirst for oil and the money to pay for it, they will play a bigger part in determining market prices than us, CAFE sucks imo, I want the option of driving suv's and big hp sedans if I choose, CAFE is going to further damage the already struggling automotive industry, GM shares dropped to the lowest level since 1954 today, $9.98.

mavericck

and you can say goodbye to your F models as well....

bagwell

bingo!!! there ya go - the technology is already there!

you don't have to spend millions on new technology.
you don't have to re-invent the wheel.

at ths point its about NOT being dependent on foreign oil & not kissing Saudi Arabia's *** for more oil production.

some stats....from HTTP://WWW.EIA.DOE.GOV

Gallons of Oil per Barrel 42
Barrels of Oil per Metric Ton (U.S.) 7.33
U.S. Crude Oil Production 5,102,000 barrels/day
State Ranking of Crude Oil Production Texas - 1,088,000 barrels/day
U.S. Crude Oil Imports 10,118,000 barrels/day
U.S. Crude Oil Imports from OPEC 5,517,000 barrels/day
Top U.S. Crude Oil Supplier Canada - 1,802,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Product Imports 3,589,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Product Imports from OPEC 733,000 barrels/day
U.S. Net Petroleum Imports 12,390,000 barrels/day
Top U.S. Total Petroleum Supplier Canada - 2,353,000 barrels/day
Top Oil Producing Countries & Exporters #1 - Saudi Arabia

Top Oil Consuming Countries & Importers #1 - United States

U.S. Total Petroleum Exports 1,317,000 barrels/day
U.S. Petroleum Consumption 20,687,000 barrels/day
Dependence on Net Petroleum Imports (2007) 58.2%
Crude Oil Domestic First Price (2007 wellhead price) $66.52/barrel
Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average) $2.85/gallon
Regular Grade Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average) $2.80/gallon
Premium Motor Gasoline Retail Prices (2007 U.S. City Average) $3.03/gallon
Federal Motor Gasoline Tax 18.4 cents/gallon
U.S. Motor Gasoline Consumption 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day)
Share of US Oil Consumption for Transportation 69%
U.S. Average Home Heating Oil Price $2.37/gallon (excluding taxes)
Number of U.S. Operable Petroleum Refineries 149
U.S. Refiners Ranked Capacity (1/1/2006) #1 - Baytown, Texas (ExxonMobil) 562,500 barrels/day
Top U.S. Petroleum Refining States #1 - Texas 4,337,026 barrels/day
U.S. Proved Reserves of Crude Oil as of December 31, 2006 20,972 million barrels
Top U.S. Oil Fields (2005) Prudhoe Bay, AK
Top U.S. Producing Companies (2006) BP - 827,000 barrels/day
U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve 689 million barrels
Total World Oil Production (2005) 82,532,000 barrels/day
Total World Petroleum Consumption (2005) 83,607,000 barrels/day

US gasoline consumption in 2004 averaged 382,400,000 gallons per day - meaning we must import almost 66 million gallons of gasoline each and every day, in addition to imported crude oil.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Bagwell, diesels are not allowed in five major US states, and not everyone wants to drive a diesel.

bagwell

new clean diesels [such as the already out there BLUETEC] are 50 state approved.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/15/m...a-with-diesel/

VW Jetta.... http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4257807.html

mb SUV's http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03...-all-50-u-s-s/

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yeah lets all drive a diesel and not have a choice

bagwell

did I say that.....???????

do I drive one...no.

its another (good) option.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Not really, the Lexus F will have the Toyota Prius to fall back on but what about the Ms? Like I've said, now is a great time for Lexus to be the "glorified Toyota".

SLegacy99

What about mild hybridizing everything. Its a start.

bagwell

I keep forgetting about this....335dH...I wonder what the MPG would be.