IL Insider: Next-Generation Lexus SC?
07-14-08, 09:52 PM
#77
Moderator
Discontinuing the SC is the right move IMO. All Lexus models are made for world markets at the SC just is not selling anymore. Cushy, curvy smooth luxury is just not in anymore and sales of almost all Lexus models have gone down. Lexus is in bad need of a make over for most of there models as IMO as the competition is moving forward farther than they are.
One can by a new Nissan Maxima which is better performing and has just as much luxury as the GS, IS or ES for less. Same goes for Acura....
Toyota really needs to rethink the luxury car market as simple nice luxury is not enough anymore...Lexus seriously needs some sport in there luxury.
One can by a new Nissan Maxima which is better performing and has just as much luxury as the GS, IS or ES for less. Same goes for Acura....
Toyota really needs to rethink the luxury car market as simple nice luxury is not enough anymore...Lexus seriously needs some sport in there luxury.
07-15-08, 01:09 AM
#78
Pole Position
unfounded speculation
It aint over til the fat lady sings:
"Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation". "
from:
US: TMS replies to claims of Toyota and Lexus models facing axe
By Glenn Brooks
14 July, 2008
Source: Automotive World
"Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation". "
from:
US: TMS replies to claims of Toyota and Lexus models facing axe
By Glenn Brooks
14 July, 2008
Source: Automotive World
Last edited by ndk83; 07-15-08 at 01:13 AM.
07-15-08, 07:13 AM
#79
Super Moderator
Thanks^^^
US: TMS replies to claims of Toyota and Lexus models facing axe
By Glenn Brooks
14 July, 2008
Source: Automotive World
Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation".
Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation".
The Edmunds Inside Line portal says that a replacement for the seven-year old Lexus coupe/convertible has been axed. Its report, which does not name a source, goes on to claim that the Avalon, the current generation of which was the first vehicle on the latest (seventh generation) Camry platform, will likewise be discontinued at the end of its model life and replaced by a supposed long wheelbase Camry.
"We [TMS] do not comment on future product plans or timetables, for obvious competitive reasons," Michels states, stating that Inside Line did not contact the OEM's US division's media department before publishing its story.
If Edmunds' claims are eventually proved true, TMS' actions would be by no means unusual. The division failed to launch replacements for such long-lived but ultimately slow-selling nameplates as the Celica and MR-2 earlier this decade and moved swiftly to axe imports of the poorly-performing ECHO and before that, the Previa minivan in the '90s, the latter replaced by the far more successful Yaris and Sienna respectively.
Several of TMS' imported and North American-built models have had a tough time in recent months. The SC 430, which is built in Japan by Toyota's Kanto Auto subsidiary at its Higashi-Fuji plant, does not look to have much of a future, with only 1,230 cars sold in the US, its largest global market, in the first six months of 2008. As for the Georgetown, Kentucky-built Avalon, which was facelifted for the '08 model year, its sales performance may not be as dire as the 57% plunge registered by the SC last month, but a 37% fall to only 3,165 units is nevertheless serious for a relatively new and mainstream model.
Other vehicles registering year-on-year tumbles that are higher than the overall 18% drop in the US market last month were the Lexus LS (-35%), GS (-32%), RX (-30%) and GX (-49%); Scion tC (-28%); and the Toyota Prius (-25%), Sienna (-24%), RAV4 (-26%), F J Cruiser (-57%), 4Runner (-49%), Highlander (-31%) and Tundra (-47%). These figures come from TMS itself.
Despite the dramatic-looking downturn for some model lines, there were three fewer selling days in June 2008 and TMS' performance was not nearly as troubled as that of some major rivals.
By Glenn Brooks
14 July, 2008
Source: Automotive World
Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation".
Mike Michels, the corporate manager of External Communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, has told AutomotiveWorld.com that reports by a US-based automotive website which claim the Lexus SC and Toyota Avalon will not be replaced due to slow sales are "unfounded speculation".
The Edmunds Inside Line portal says that a replacement for the seven-year old Lexus coupe/convertible has been axed. Its report, which does not name a source, goes on to claim that the Avalon, the current generation of which was the first vehicle on the latest (seventh generation) Camry platform, will likewise be discontinued at the end of its model life and replaced by a supposed long wheelbase Camry.
"We [TMS] do not comment on future product plans or timetables, for obvious competitive reasons," Michels states, stating that Inside Line did not contact the OEM's US division's media department before publishing its story.
If Edmunds' claims are eventually proved true, TMS' actions would be by no means unusual. The division failed to launch replacements for such long-lived but ultimately slow-selling nameplates as the Celica and MR-2 earlier this decade and moved swiftly to axe imports of the poorly-performing ECHO and before that, the Previa minivan in the '90s, the latter replaced by the far more successful Yaris and Sienna respectively.
Several of TMS' imported and North American-built models have had a tough time in recent months. The SC 430, which is built in Japan by Toyota's Kanto Auto subsidiary at its Higashi-Fuji plant, does not look to have much of a future, with only 1,230 cars sold in the US, its largest global market, in the first six months of 2008. As for the Georgetown, Kentucky-built Avalon, which was facelifted for the '08 model year, its sales performance may not be as dire as the 57% plunge registered by the SC last month, but a 37% fall to only 3,165 units is nevertheless serious for a relatively new and mainstream model.
Other vehicles registering year-on-year tumbles that are higher than the overall 18% drop in the US market last month were the Lexus LS (-35%), GS (-32%), RX (-30%) and GX (-49%); Scion tC (-28%); and the Toyota Prius (-25%), Sienna (-24%), RAV4 (-26%), F J Cruiser (-57%), 4Runner (-49%), Highlander (-31%) and Tundra (-47%). These figures come from TMS itself.
Despite the dramatic-looking downturn for some model lines, there were three fewer selling days in June 2008 and TMS' performance was not nearly as troubled as that of some major rivals.
07-15-08, 07:26 AM
#80
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^^^^^^ Exactly.
MSM and myself told you this on page 1, could have saved 5 pages or so
MSM and myself told you this on page 1, could have saved 5 pages or so
07-15-08, 07:29 AM
#81
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Lexus is much better off using the production capacity to build a dedicated hybrid instead.
07-15-08, 08:14 AM
#82
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And also, the Jaguar XK and Mercedes SL have far more appeal and allure and are recognizable "dream machines". The Lexus SC430 has always struck me as a bore-mobile and that design was terrible.
Lexus had it right with the SC300 and SC400, but when the SC430 came along...
07-15-08, 09:49 AM
#83
Actually, the statement from Toyota has neither confirmed nor denied Edmunds Inside Line's speculation. It makes me think that maybe there are some truth in that article.
I personally think the SC will be going into hiatus for couple years and Lexus would probablly bring it back either base on the next gen GS or as a cheap man's LF-A.
I personally think the SC will be going into hiatus for couple years and Lexus would probablly bring it back either base on the next gen GS or as a cheap man's LF-A.
07-15-08, 10:33 AM
#84
Moderator
Yes but this cost tons of money. Also the SC430 is sold all over the world and in the US it is not doing well at all...likely overseas sales are down as well. The SC appeals to a select crowd and IMO this crowd is going to change their buying habits.
Lexus is much better off using the production capacity to build a dedicated hybrid instead.
Lexus is much better off using the production capacity to build a dedicated hybrid instead.
So you're saying it costs tons of money to go from one model generation to another. Give me a break. So why is there a fifth generation ES model currently? That must've cost a lot of money. Toyota is the most profitable auto manufacturer in the whole entire world. So they can afford it.
As of fiscal year ended March 31st, 2008 it had gross sales of $262 Billion and net income of $17 Billion compared to GM's gross sales of $181 Billion and net loss of ($39) Billion and Ford's gross sales of $172 Billion and a net loss of ($3) Billion.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TM&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=GM&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=F&annual
Last edited by Trexus; 07-15-08 at 10:39 AM.
07-15-08, 03:43 PM
#85
Moderator
The 1SC's overall lenght is 4,890 mm and the IS's overall length is 4,574 mm; the 1SC's overall width is 1,801 mm and the IS's overall width is 1,800 mm; the 1SC's overall height is 1,351 mm and the IS's overall height is 1,425 mm.
Styling between the 1SC and 2SC is very subjective and I'll leave it at that. I will agree the 2SC is dated compared to the current IS but when the 3SC comes it will be current and hopefully amazing. Why are you comparing the IS to the SC? They're not even in the same class? See you are one of the few that do not understand the SC...
Last edited by Trexus; 07-15-08 at 04:04 PM.
07-15-08, 04:22 PM
#86
Please tell us what the SC really is, you almighty SC god... 
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
07-15-08, 04:40 PM
#87
Moderator
Please tell us what the SC really is, you almighty SC god...
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
Yes, the 2IS coupe is going to be very sporty and hopefully shares the platform of the new Supra but then again the Supra rumors have been around for a very long time now. Remember the 2IS sedan uses a shortened version of the GS platform.
The 2IS coupe is going to be very sporty just like the sedan. Then we have the ES which is a luxury cruiser. Well currently that's what the 2SC is; a luxury cruiser coupe. The IS and ES are both entry level cars but both have different purposes and Lexus does sell more ES's than IS's. The IS coupe and the 3SC will most definitely have different purposes. The IS coupe will be sporty entry level. The 3SC will be mid-level and then we'll have the LF-A as our exotic sports car. Hallelujah...
Last edited by Trexus; 07-15-08 at 04:47 PM.
07-15-08, 05:20 PM
#88
I do not disagree with you on any of those. All I am saying is:
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
07-15-08, 05:48 PM
#89
Moderator
I do not disagree with you on any of those. All I am saying is:
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
Remember awhile back there was a rumor the RAV4 was going to be discontinued then the next generation came out. I hope this rumor about the SC isn't true or that it's only temporary and that Lexus somehow keeps the SC...
07-15-08, 06:36 PM
#90
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I do not disagree with you on any of those. All I am saying is:
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
If 1SC is something a person wants then the 2IS coupe would fit the bill pretty well. I do not claim that the 2IS coupe is going to replace the SC and it won't because the SC is marketed higher than entry level coupes like the 2IS-C/335i/G37. If the rumor is true then let's hope that's only temporary and Lexus will bring the SC back either based on the next GS (like how the 6er is based on 5er) or as a cheap man's LF-A (smaller engine with less weight-saving materials).
Wrong the 1SC is longer, slightly wider and lower than the current 2IS. If Lexus uses the 1SC's mold one wouldn't get the 2IS coupe. The IS is and always will be an entry level model. The IS didn't even exist when the SC came out. Yes, the SC has been around and has it's own heritage.
The 1SC's overall lenght is 4,890 mm and the IS's overall length is 4,574 mm; the 1SC's overall width is 1,801 mm and the IS's overall width is 1,800 mm; the 1SC's overall height is 1,351 mm and the IS's overall height is 1,425 mm.
Styling between the 1SC and 2SC is very subjective and I'll leave it at that. I will agree the 2SC is dated compared to the current IS but when the 3SC comes it will be current and hopefully amazing. Why are you comparing the IS to the SC? They're not even in the same class? See you are one of the few that do not understand the SC...
The 1SC's overall lenght is 4,890 mm and the IS's overall length is 4,574 mm; the 1SC's overall width is 1,801 mm and the IS's overall width is 1,800 mm; the 1SC's overall height is 1,351 mm and the IS's overall height is 1,425 mm.
Styling between the 1SC and 2SC is very subjective and I'll leave it at that. I will agree the 2SC is dated compared to the current IS but when the 3SC comes it will be current and hopefully amazing. Why are you comparing the IS to the SC? They're not even in the same class? See you are one of the few that do not understand the SC...