IL Insider: Next-Generation Lexus SC?
07-22-08, 05:04 PM
#106
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Long production runs and forcasting are over IMO. The faster you redesign a car the more competitive advantage you will have. Lexus needs to kill the SC right away and spend this money on their more mainstream cars.
IMO Lexus cars really aren't moving right now because of a lack of design compared to the competition...Infiiniti really makes a better product with there cars right now than Lexus and it shows especially in the design.
IMO Lexus cars really aren't moving right now because of a lack of design compared to the competition...Infiiniti really makes a better product with there cars right now than Lexus and it shows especially in the design.
07-22-08, 05:29 PM
#107
Speaks French in Russian
I guess I will have to disagree with that statement. Infiniti's are damn fine cars, but better product?? Maybe one or two of their models are, which is highly debatable, but brand for brand.....thats not even close!! Especially when the interiors of 3 out of 5 of Infiniti's models are basically the same as the lowly Maxima and Murano (though they are nice, but come on. I'd be mad if my 60K FX50 shared the same center console as a 30K Maxima). 1, maybe 2 vehicles in its entire line up actually looks good (of course thats subjective) and they dont have a vehicle that can compete with the LS.
Nice product, but I think they have a little more growing to do.
Nice product, but I think they have a little more growing to do.
07-22-08, 09:15 PM
#108
Long production runs and forcasting are over IMO. The faster you redesign a car the more competitive advantage you will have. Lexus needs to kill the SC right away and spend this money on their more mainstream cars.
IMO Lexus cars really aren't moving right now because of a lack of design compared to the competition...Infiiniti really makes a better product with there cars right now than Lexus and it shows especially in the design.
IMO Lexus cars really aren't moving right now because of a lack of design compared to the competition...Infiiniti really makes a better product with there cars right now than Lexus and it shows especially in the design.
Infiniti has gotten much better in the last several years, but have a bit to go before they can actually play in the BMW, MB, Lexus arena... and one reason is that they don't have any halo cars (big $$$ sedan, high priced vert).
07-22-08, 10:06 PM
#109
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The SC never was, is not, and never will be, a volume vehicle. In order for Lexus to even invest in something like the SC, it has to be produced for a long time to recoup development costs
IMO there is something wrong in Lexus land when all your passenger cars are selling less than the pervious year when you have cars such as the ES in its second year and LS in only its third model year. Call it whatever you want but these numbers don't lie..IMO this is reflected in the management changes are reorganization taking place at Toyota right now. For Toyota not enough small cars and too many large trucks..they should of cancelled the Sequoia...as for Lexus..the cars are way to boring.
I remember a time when Toyota's/Lexus sold no matter what and currently this is not the case. I blame the design of the cars for not selling. L finese IMO is not working. The LS and ES used to be benchmarks. They are great but not the benchmark anymore IMO.
Last edited by pagemaster; 07-22-08 at 10:17 PM.
07-23-08, 03:14 PM
#111
Eh
I never said it was a volume leader but IMO the days of vehicles with long production cycles are gone...car companies that can redesign a vehicles quicker will be the companies that sell more cars year over year and Toyota needs to recognize this to be successful in the future. I think only time will tell if either of us are correct.
IMO there is something wrong in Lexus land when all your passenger cars are selling less than the pervious year when you have cars such as the ES in its second year and LS in only its third model year. Call it whatever you want but these numbers don't lie..IMO this is reflected in the management changes are reorganization taking place at Toyota right now. For Toyota not enough small cars and too many large trucks..they should of cancelled the Sequoia...as for Lexus..the cars are way to boring.
I remember a time when Toyota's/Lexus sold no matter what and currently this is not the case. I blame the design of the cars for not selling. L finese IMO is not working. The LS and ES used to be benchmarks. They are great but not the benchmark anymore IMO.
IMO there is something wrong in Lexus land when all your passenger cars are selling less than the pervious year when you have cars such as the ES in its second year and LS in only its third model year. Call it whatever you want but these numbers don't lie..IMO this is reflected in the management changes are reorganization taking place at Toyota right now. For Toyota not enough small cars and too many large trucks..they should of cancelled the Sequoia...as for Lexus..the cars are way to boring.
I remember a time when Toyota's/Lexus sold no matter what and currently this is not the case. I blame the design of the cars for not selling. L finese IMO is not working. The LS and ES used to be benchmarks. They are great but not the benchmark anymore IMO.
07-23-08, 03:32 PM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
If you look at some Lexus competitors, though, they DO sell a lot of 6-cylinder versions compared to V8's. Look at the BMW 5-series, for example. They have sold a lot of 525's, 528's, 530's and 535's....not everyone buys 540's, 545s, 550s, or M5s.
You will find similiar 6-vs-V8 sales patterns with other upmarket vehicles as well, like the Infiniti M35/45, Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, etc....
07-23-08, 05:20 PM
#114
Moderator
The problem is, Andrew, that, without a V6 or in-line 6 version, we don't have the "reality" to even make that judgement basis on. It's making a judgement on something that doesn't exist.
If you look at some Lexus competitors, though, they DO sell a lot of 6-cylinder versions compared to V8's. Look at the BMW 5-series, for example. They have sold a lot of 525's, 528's, 530's and 535's....not everyone buys 540's, 545s, 550s, or M5s.
You will find similiar 6-vs-V8 sales patterns with other upmarket vehicles as well, like the Infiniti M35/45, Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, etc....
If you look at some Lexus competitors, though, they DO sell a lot of 6-cylinder versions compared to V8's. Look at the BMW 5-series, for example. They have sold a lot of 525's, 528's, 530's and 535's....not everyone buys 540's, 545s, 550s, or M5s.
You will find similiar 6-vs-V8 sales patterns with other upmarket vehicles as well, like the Infiniti M35/45, Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, etc....
07-23-08, 05:37 PM
#115
Super Moderator
The problem is, Andrew, that, without a V6 or in-line 6 version, we don't have the "reality" to even make that judgement basis on. It's making a judgement on something that doesn't exist.
If you look at some Lexus competitors, though, they DO sell a lot of 6-cylinder versions compared to V8's. Look at the BMW 5-series, for example. They have sold a lot of 525's, 528's, 530's and 535's....not everyone buys 540's, 545s, 550s, or M5s.
You will find similiar 6-vs-V8 sales patterns with other upmarket vehicles as well, like the Infiniti M35/45, Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, etc....
If you look at some Lexus competitors, though, they DO sell a lot of 6-cylinder versions compared to V8's. Look at the BMW 5-series, for example. They have sold a lot of 525's, 528's, 530's and 535's....not everyone buys 540's, 545s, 550s, or M5s.
You will find similiar 6-vs-V8 sales patterns with other upmarket vehicles as well, like the Infiniti M35/45, Mercedes E-class, Audi A6, etc....
You can't compare SC430 with the 5 series, E-class, etc. they are sedans & not the flagship sedans. The flagship coupe/convertible from BMW, the 6 series, does not offer anything less than a V8 in N.America, neither do the SL, the Mercedes flagship coupe/convertible.
07-23-08, 06:12 PM
#116
Exactly. The 6 series was never offered in the US with a 6 cylinder. The CLK however does have a 6 cylinder option but isn't a true E-series coupe. All of the luxury makers seem to understand that a GT coupe doesn't call for a 6 cylinder engine. The IS coupe will fill the SC300 spot. I'm all for more options (some people would take a LS350 if it existed) but it seems the luxury market doesn't want a 6 cylinder luxury GT coupe.
07-23-08, 11:08 PM
#117
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07-26-08, 04:21 PM
#119
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Please tell us what the SC really is, you almighty SC god... 
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
I have to agree with Phil, if we can look past the actually physical dimensions and concentrate on what the 1SC was:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on Supra
and what the 2IS coupe is going to be:
a sporty 2-door coupe based on the 2IS (which is going to share the engine and/or platform with the new Supra if Toyota decides to bring it back, you can bank on it)
We can easily see that a 2IS coupe is actually a better 1SC replacement than the current 2SC...
So the Supra is a sporty version of the SC