LexFather

OFfical GIF of all Acura/Honda threads (except NSX or S2000)


Mike its lame period. Blaming standards is a cop out. No one has DROPPED V-8s or RWD yet. As a matter of fact MORE people are jumping on it. Kia will have a RWD car soon.

The economy and cafe standards are cop outs for something they NEVER were going to do.

mmarshall

Well, I'm not really taking sides on the issue, in the sense you describe it......just more or less taking a wait-and-see approach. It's true that Kia and Hyundai recently added V8's, but that decision was made before the new CAFE rules were passed. That isn't a cop-out, just stating a fact. I agree with you that some V8's will remain even with the CAFE rules, but I suspect that most of them will have converted to either V8 diesel, non-petroleum fuels, or hybrid power......the traditional gasoline V8 as we know it, outside of a few heavy-duty pickup trucks and full-size SUVs, will probably be an almost extinct device.

The G Man

If any of you guys ever travel to Asia and Europe, you will know that V8 is rare animal outside of the US.

LexFather

Yes b/c we are Americans and we don't have passports and oh dear, we don't travel outside our state boundaries.

The G Man

I am just pointing out that the attitude around here seems to be that V8 is the norm and a must have in any lineup.

LexFather

Let me correct your "around here" to "Every car forum". I suggest you read TOV where Acura/Honda people are sick and tired of the V-8 talk and not having one.

A V-8 or bigger is the "NORM". If you don't have it, you are a lameduck, and "also ran", you are not in the game. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

Jaguar has 4, yes 4 V-8s in hits XF. It outsells the V-6 only RL handily. Its seen as a grade higher and is revered. THis is hte luxury market, the want market, the excess market, not the average or barely meets expectations market.

Who DOESN'T offer a V-8? Everyone does.
Audi multiple V-8s
BMW multiple V-8s
Lexus multiple V-8s
Lincoln V-8
Infiniti multiple V-8s
Mercedes multiple V-8s
Volvo multiple V-8s
Ford V-8s
Kia V-8
Hyundai V-8
Chrysler V-8
Dodge V-8
Cadillac V-8s
Chevy V-8s
etc etc etc

Lets look at the debuts here. Acura debuts with a V-6 in the Legend. Lexus and Infiniti debut with V-6s and V-8s. They GOT THE POINT from the start.

Now I could understand if Acura had NEW V-6s or turbo or S/C V-6s or hybrid V-6s. No! They have the same tired J series V-6 that has V-8 economy and performance is in the back of the field.

So if your not going to offer a V-8 how about a class leading V-6? They don't even offer that!!

IS-SV

Good point, not everybody is trying to hang onto traditional pushrod V8's, 75 series whitewall tires, drum brakes, vinyl roofs, fake wood siding, leaded fuel, bench seats, vomit-inducing soft suspension with poor handling, etc.

Modern small displacement V8's aren't going away for those that can afford them.

IS-SV

Yes, I do remember that show "Get a Life", seems to be appropriate per your quip above.

The G Man

Back to my point, V8 only sells in the US. In many parts of the world there are even 4 cylinder versions of the Luxury brands mentioned above.
What really have me scratching my head is that the Acura brand was mainly develop for the US market, and the US market wants a V8 or even a V10. Acura as a company just keeps on rejecting what the US market wants. Does Acura have a marketing research department at all? Come to think of it, maybe its the same department that design the laughable grill.

LexFather

Considering Acura is a USA only brand (they sell 3 cars in China a year), created soley for America, they are made in Ohio, they are designed in California, you WOULD THINK all signs point to then making a V-8?

If Lexus didn't offer a V-8, OMG the field day people would have. Not sure how Honda gets double standard treatment.

V-8s might not be big sellers worldwide (I don't have figures) BUT BUT BUT they are OFFERED still. No one has STOPPED selling V-8s in Europe, Japan, Asia, Australia, etc.

There is no excuse. Hyundai and Kia came from behind and has it. They don't.

Now since the CEO has said they won't make any, that is fine. Except they have an ancient V-6. They also hopefully will stop fooling people into thinking they are serious about being a luxury brand. They never were. Acura is FINE to move up to from Hondas and they are good cars. They are a step to a AUdi, BMW, Benz.

mmarshall

Look at the two top-selling Lexus products in America, though........the ES350 and RX350. Both of them have V6s.....in fact, the same 3.5L engine.

LexFather

Sorry MIke not the point. Its obvious the V-6 cars will outsell V-8 ones. IF the LS 400 debuted with a V-6 in 1989 and Lexus never had a V-8, Lexus would be Tier II or III and would not have experienced HALF the success it did.

Acura and people need to read one simple case study. The transformation of the GS 300 to the GS 300/400 from first gen to second gen. It elevated the car and Lexus with the GS 400 and brought new buyers.

The GS went from an also-ran/forgotten (like the RL) to the forefront of the class and battling top spots with the 5 series and 540.

Funny to think I would not be 1SICKLEX or on CL if there was only a GS 300. DaveGS4, Rominl, Mr. Johnson, countless others would have ventured possibly elsewhere.

Funny now that I think about if. If there was no GS 400 I wonder what would have happened.

IS-SV

Yes to sellers catering to a less demanding typically non-enthusiast buyer, that BMW and Mercedes serve less well. These are not the truly premium Lexus products. Of course they have high margins and generate great revenue and profit for Toyota/Lexus, they make great business sense for the company (separate topic maybe).

Better examples of premium Lexus products with V6's include ISx50 and GSxxx.

mmarshall

The LS400's intent was to battle the V8 Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-series, Cadillac Northstars, Jaguar XJ, and its own Japanese Infiniti Q45 competition (the Q45 never was much competition, of course). So, yes, the LS HAD to have a V8. But that was not Acura's goal. Acura, as you note, did not aspire to be a top-level luxury car. They were content to sell V6-equipped Legends, Vigors, and 4-cylinder Integras (and the Legend was considered an excellent upmarket sedan/coupe). Acura, admittedly, began a downward slide in the mid-late 1990's, but that was not because of engines or drivetrains. They totally screwed up their marketing, mixed up their vehicle designations, and instituted a confusing model-labelling system that many people still find confusing today. And, of course, the parrot-beak grilles only made a bad situation worse.

Two things, though, despite their admitted numerous mistakes, DID impress me at Acura. One was the design and build quality of the third-geneneration Integra...the one with the four little round headlights. The other, of course, is the SH-AWD equipped RL...not only the sophisticated AWD system, but the car's tanklike solidness/build quality and hardware. It has a solidness seen in few modern cars today.....though the engine, of course, is no match for the Lexus V8s.

You'd be here....and they probably would, too. CAR CHAT is one of the best car-talk forums on the Internet. I was impressed with it the first day I saw it.

Doesn't necessarily take a GS400 to get people into CL. I had a yellow IS300 that got me started here.....and I liked CAR CHAT so much I stayed even with my Subaru.

LexFather

THere is a very very good chance I would have gotten a 540 and not a 400. Thankfully Lexus put an incredible V-8 in it.

Which is my point.