Leave the car running while pumping gas, or take the baby out of the car?
07-27-08, 10:00 AM
#76
I guess I am, but then could you tell me how starting a car is more dangerous than a running car? I'm trying to think logically about this and being that my knowledge is not that grand I just can't figure it out.
When I made my comments, I was not talking about which is safer, a running engine or an engine being started.
My comment was focused on the electrical circuit at steady state compared with electrical circuit at ignition moment.
AC electrical motor supplied current can reach to 8 times the normal current. I am not sure about the DC motors, but there is no reason why DC motors should have lower inrush (surge) current.
At 8 or 6 times the normal load, at the ignition moment, the electronics control shut all electrical demand from the circuit to be able to supply the starter motor. Right after the engine run signal is on, the control system (which is a simple cut out in the old cars) return the supply to other components.
During this period all lose connections are almost guaranteed to produce sparks.
You can make a simple experiment by turning all room lights off and plug any electrical device to the wall socket. You will see the sparks. As soon as the plug is plugged you will not see any more sparks(even using bare wires).
back to the topic
Today I asked our safety director (at a 6 billion dollar project) about this topic. He is a respected UK citizen started as a fire man 40 years ago.
To be honest he said he shuts the engine at gas stations, but he don't have strong reasons other than possible lose connections. But he also agreed that lose connections can produce sparks at surge time worse than running time.
Thanks CK and apology if I over reacted.
07-27-08, 10:19 AM
#77
CK
When I made my comments, I was not talking about which is safer, a running engine or an engine being started.
My comment was focused on the electrical circuit at steady state compared with electrical circuit at ignition moment.
AC electrical motor supplied current can reach to 8 times the normal current. I am not sure about the DC motors, but there is no reason why DC motors should have lower inrush (surge) current.
At 8 or 6 times the normal load, at the ignition moment, the electronics control shut all electrical demand from the circuit to be able to supply the starter motor. Right after the engine run signal is on, the control system (which is a simple cut out in the old cars) return the supply to other components.
During this period all lose connections are almost guaranteed to produce sparks.
You can make a simple experiment by turning all room lights off and plug any electrical device to the wall socket. You will see the sparks. As soon as the plug is plugged you will not see any more sparks(even using bare wires).
back to the topic
Today I asked our safety director (at a 6 billion dollar project) about this topic. He is a respected UK citizen started as a fire man 40 years ago.
To be honest he said he shuts the engine at gas stations, but he don't have strong reasons other than possible lose connections. But he also agreed that lose connections can produce sparks at surge time worse than running time.
Thanks CK and apology if I over reacted.
When I made my comments, I was not talking about which is safer, a running engine or an engine being started.
My comment was focused on the electrical circuit at steady state compared with electrical circuit at ignition moment.
AC electrical motor supplied current can reach to 8 times the normal current. I am not sure about the DC motors, but there is no reason why DC motors should have lower inrush (surge) current.
At 8 or 6 times the normal load, at the ignition moment, the electronics control shut all electrical demand from the circuit to be able to supply the starter motor. Right after the engine run signal is on, the control system (which is a simple cut out in the old cars) return the supply to other components.
During this period all lose connections are almost guaranteed to produce sparks.
You can make a simple experiment by turning all room lights off and plug any electrical device to the wall socket. You will see the sparks. As soon as the plug is plugged you will not see any more sparks(even using bare wires).
back to the topic
Today I asked our safety director (at a 6 billion dollar project) about this topic. He is a respected UK citizen started as a fire man 40 years ago.
To be honest he said he shuts the engine at gas stations, but he don't have strong reasons other than possible lose connections. But he also agreed that lose connections can produce sparks at surge time worse than running time.
Thanks CK and apology if I over reacted.
Another reason why we leave most of our machines and computers servers on at work vs turning them off. I do think timing of the event in this particular topic plays a major role. This topic only shows that there are so many variables that cause a fire while pumping gas that it is no wonder why there are so many different opinions about it. Kind of like what is more dangerous. The killer with the automatic weapon or the one with the pocket knife. It just depends on the situation. If the killer with the pocket knife is in font of you he probably is more dangerous than the killer with the automatic weapon in the middle of the jungle
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