mmarshall

No, not per se. I used the RL as the epitome of Honda/Acura build quality, which, IMO, it is.

mmarshall

The S2000 is rear-drive.

I strongly disagree that the company is not innovative, especially with engine technology. Honda CVCC engines were the first, in the mid-1970's, to meet the emissions standards of the time without a catalyst or unleaded fuel (though their start/warm-up drivability was atrocious). Honda, in the early 1990's, was the first company to market VTEC variable-valve timing engines, a spinoff from their Formula One program. In January 2000, the Honda Insight was the first gas-electric hybrid to be sold in America (I was one of the first non-Honda, non-auto-press members of the general public in the DC area to look at and drive one). The Toyota Prius did not make it till six months later......July. And, Honda will be the first company to mass-market a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle (the FCX) to the general public, possibly next year. It was also the first Japanese auto company to introduce an upmarket division (Acura) to the American market.....Lexus and Infiniti were to follow.

LexBob2

Short thread, eh?

LexFather

Wow, we base our judgement on Honda on one poorly written article? Amazing.

Honda was DOWN in July, like everyone else. Sigh.....

I do find Honda to be maybe the best at small cars but this article totally overlooks their opportunties and where they fail at.

IS350jet

Twenty years from now, business schools may be asking their MBA students a question: When every other major automaker hit the skids during the Great Gas Crunch of 2008, which company actually gained sales and seized advantage?
The answer, students, is Honda. And for anyone taking notes, there’s a moral that applies not only to business, but life: It takes brains to hatch a good plan. But it takes guts to stick with it, especially when everyone else is following the herd.
So far this year, new-car sales are down a whopping 10 percent. Yet in June Honda sales were up more than 4 percent. And the more gas prices rise, the more Hondas fly off the lot: The company saw overall sales jump 14 percent in June, with its car models skyrocketing 34 percent to a new monthly record.
What happened? While other companies were going with the flow of cheap gas, Honda stuck with what it knows: building relatively small and efficient engines. Designing cars with fuel economy as a priority, not an afterthought.
Now, when Detroit is once again caught with their pants down — this time in the back of a Hummer — Honda is again positioned to steal their customers.
Party's Over
Honda’s rivals kept popping the champagne, thinking the truck party would never end. Even Toyota and Nissan pandered to truck buyers. And it’s hard to blame them. Those Japanese brands saw Detroit raking in easy profits, up to $8,000 on every big SUV and pickup it sold. Both companies put on their own cowboy hat, said “Me too, pardner” and built new factories — Toyota in Texas, Nissan in Mississippi — dedicated exclusively to thirsty, super-sized trucks.
When it declined to chase the more-is-better trend, Honda took heat from the media: “Where’s the V8?” was the question regarding models like the Acura RL and Ridgeline pickup, which made do with powerful but higher-mileage V6 engines instead. “It’s missing a six” was the knee-jerk reaction to four-banger models like the CR-V crossover. The company was faulted for refusing to market a full-size SUV.
Dan Bonawitz, Honda’s vice-president of corporate planning, remembers even Honda dealers clamoring for a big V8 pickup built on a traditional truck frame. The company declined.
“We told dealers that the world doesn’t need another body-on-frame pickup with a different name on the grille,” Bonawitz said. “What value were we going to provide customers that no one else does? There was no answer there.”
When I spoke with Bonawitz via cell phone, he coincidentally happened to be driving a Ridgeline from a Honda dealer council meeting in northern California. So what were dealers saying now?
“We’re really glad you didn’t listen to us on that pickup,” Bonawitz said with a laugh, recalling the dealers’ response.
Today, all those overweight, overpowered trucks are gathering dust in showrooms. Owners, unable to afford the fill-ups, are desperate to dump them. And while Honda’s Ridgeline won’t win any beauty contests, its more fuel-efficient, space-saving design may well be the model for the pickup of the future.
Its strategy vindicated, Honda can let gas-weary buyers fall into its lap. Sure, the company has been fortunate to have a lot of new models hitting the market. Yet most of those models seem tailor-made for the era of $4-a-gallon gas. And that is no accident.
Sales of the subcompact Fit hatchback are up nearly 70 percent this year. In May the compact Honda Civic was the best-selling model in America, the first time in 17 years that a pickup truck didn't grab the top spot. The frugal CR-V has become the best-selling SUV, period. On the luxury front, the new Acura TSX is also right for the times: It’s the only sedan in its class powered by a non-turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The result is class-leading fuel economy of 30 mpg on the highway, yet the TSX is still a blast to drive.


Compare Honda’s position to that of Chrysler. The Detroit automaker has relied on pickups and SUVs for a larger chunk of sales than any rival. Now Chrysler is paying for its lack of foresight. Sales are down 23 percent this year, rocking the company to its core.
Even Toyota and Nissan are looking like poker players who joined the game too late. Their truck factories are looking like a sucker bet. Toyota has dramatically scaled back production of its slow-selling Tundra pickup at its sparkling San Antonio plant.
No V8 Anchor
Certainly, even Honda has to weather the storm. It will build fewer Odyssey minivans and Pilot SUVs to make room for more Civics. But overall, Honda is facing less exposure to a market whose 180-degree switch caught automakers by surprise. It’s not only that Honda doesn’t have to unload lots full of unwanted trucks, it also doesn’t have to spend billions to close or convert truck factories, or write off huge losses on the plummeting value of used trucks that customers return from leases. Nor will Honda have to dismantle expensive foundries that make V8 engines.
Those truck losses dragged Ford to its worst quarterly showing in its 105-year history, a staggering $8.7 billion loss in just three months. Playing catch up, Ford will now begin converting North American truck factories to build the small Fords that are popular in Europe. But even with Ford scrambling, it can’t switch from trucks to cars overnight. Americans would kill for the sleek-looking Ford Fiesta right now, but we’ll have to wait until 2010. Honda’s latest Fit? See you this October.
And compared to Detroit carmakers, Honda — like Toyota and Nissan — has the advantage of flexible manufacturing that can build multiple models on the same assembly line. Bonawitz notes that Honda already builds a small car, pickup and SUV — Civic, Ridgeline and Acura MDX — on a single assembly line in Canada.
“Rather than shuttering plants or a major reconfiguration within a plant, we can shift the volume between models and respond more quickly to changing market needs and tastes,” Bonawitz explained.
On the whole, Honda could be forgiven for engaging in a bit of gloating right now. But it would rather keep doing what it’s been doing. A few weeks ago, I tested the formidable 2009 Acura TL sedan that goes on sale this fall. Under an embargo agreement with the company, I can’t yet reveal the details.
But Honda probably won’t mind if I drop one clue: You won’t have to worry about affording the gas.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=584571

pagemaster

They are not stuck with six suvs and two pickups that they have to sell. Toyota made a very big mistake with their forcasting for the new Tundra/Sequioa and now are paying the price. I think the house is going to come crashing down if Toyota ever releases a heavy duty model.

I think Honda did make a mistake with their first gen Accord/Civic hybrids. There should be a prius type model coming very soon.

ST430

Those 6 SUVs and 2 pickups have made huge contributions to Toyco's title as the most profitable Automaker in the world (they have enough in the bank to buy Honda AND BMW if they wanted to). Just because of the recent recession and high gas prices, you don't get shortsighted and discount them altogether. Since you are still living in your own bubble world, I would highly suggest again you take a look at the new Pilot / MDX sales if you think Honda is all glitter and gold. The sky is not falling at Toyota anytime soon, unlike our Big 3.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Most SUVs and Trucks aren't doing as well as expected, but that's a given. It's just better to have 2 SUV than 6 at a time like this. But it's not biggy..Toyota can just cut production (they have on the Tundra) and concentrate on producing more small subcompacts. For Honda and Toyota, they're already going to make profit no matter how the economy is...there will always be people buying subcompacts.

pagemaster

Sure its a biggy. Cutting production is not the most profitible thing to do. Right now their plants are sitting idle and not being used. It is costing a ton of money to first built two plants to make Tundras and then all of a sudden have to convert one of those plants (indiana) to make something else while leaving the other plant idle.

I am very suprised for a company like to Toyota to make such a forcasting mistake...Toyota is now taking the correct approach with the Lexus super car and carefully making sure that it makes sense to built it.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

It's better to make enough right now, than to make excess. Obviously Toyota can't sell all the Tundras they produce, but if they limit their goals, they will fare pretty well. As long as they're still profiting in the end, it works out for them. Sure they could have made more, but that applies to every manufacturers right now. If everyone could predict how the economy will turn out, no one would have fullsize trucks and SUVs by now.

mmarshall

Never mind the media....you don't even have to go that far. Just look at all the heat Honda/Acura took for that decision right HERE, on CAR CHAT. A lot of you guys kept comparing Honda's decision to stick with V6s to a stubborn mule that wouldn't get up and walk (and I was one of Honda's defenders on the forum).

Well, guess what? Most of those fast, sleek race horses around the stubborn old mule now have broken legs, recovering in the stable, while the old mule slowly gets up and walks away from them

FKL

I'm sorry I don't agree with this. There is nothing "quality" about the chintzy interior of the 8th generation Accord. I have a 2004 Accord EX Coupe with nav and while the "quality" may be above that of a Ford Mustang (well, it is actually), I wouldn't call it the absolute pinacle of it's class. There are still hard plastics inside, the exterior body panels have NEVER lined up right, and the paint is slightly mismatched. This is common to most Honda products, especially those made in the US. The Accord is a great car, for a great price, but I am NOT confusing it's "quality" with that of the vw I also own - It's simply not comparable. External panel tolorances, interior surface coatings, monroof tracks, trunk lining (unlined trunk is unacceptable for this price), weather stripping - the car seems less "engineered" than the Volkswagen. That doesn't mean it's a bad car by any measure, but I wouldn't say that it has "Swiss-Watch build/assembly quality". High reliability/low monetary impact, but not build quality and fit and finish. Maybe I need to lower my standards from Euro/Audi standards, but when I see a Jetta with a better interior and paint than my Accord I can't help but get a little red-faced.

And all the clamoring about Honda's gas mileage - Well, the new Accord is a big bloated wonder that gets worse mileage than it's predecessor. The mileage coming out of the I4 (essentially the same 2.4 from the 7th gen with new headers/muffler/engine mapping software) negates much, if any of the added MPG benefit normally associated with a 4 cylinder. The TSX isn't much better.

As for the Honda V8, there is nothing smart about offering an overpriced, FWD bias V6 car to compete with premium European RWD offerings. Look at the RL sales if you have any remaining scepticism regarding this astronomical blunder of a car.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Quality can be said for many brands out there right now. While I agree the current Accord may not be the pinnacle of Honda's quality, it's still pretty darn good for what it is (midsize family car). Heck, the Toyota Camry's interior is made up of plenty hard plastic too. If it was suppose to be a luxury car, i'd be complaining. Honda, Acura, Subaru, Toyota, and even Lexus isn't at their peak anymore. Unfortunately, it's becoming a common trend to cost cut.

GS69

10 Questions about Honda

Honda's **** Colliver talks about cars, the local work force, the company's future
Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:01 AM
By Tracy Turner
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Ohio "should feel comfortable with Honda," says Richard E. Colliver, executive vice president of Honda's U.S. automobile sales. "We've made major investments here and we're here to stay."

This week, Honda of America rolled out its highly anticipated 2009 Acura TL sport sedan, an entry-level luxury vehicle that got a makeover.

Richard E. Colliver, the automaker's No. 2 man in North America, was in central Ohio this week for the introduction of the new-look vehicle.

His presence demonstrated Honda's view that central Ohio is an important part of the company's future.

Colliver, whose formal title is executive vice president of automobile sales, had these thoughts on Honda and the company's commitment to Ohio.

tturner@dispatch.com

1 Honda's sales have been strong despite the poor economy. Has the company felt the downturn?

We're not immune to what's going on in the industry. We've had to adjust production because of the light truck sales where we've seen declines but not as bad as some of the others in the industry.

2 How has Honda adapted?

We anticipated that we were going to be in a higher-gas-price, lower-fuel-economy market. And our business plan we put together last November stressed that we needed to go back to the basics of the strength of our brand, which was the fuel economy, the cost of ownership and value of our product. Because of the availability of products like the Civic, the Fit and the Accord, we were perfectly positioned to address the market as the oil prices started ramping up.

3 Did Honda anticipate how devastating the credit crunch would be to the economy and result in banks tightening access to loans, including auto loans?

No, we didn't see it coming to be as bad as it is. But having been in the finance business, and seeing what was being done on real-estate loans and even some auto loans, I knew that the odds of that imploding was coming. When I was in Japan at headquarters in October, all the high-ranking finance people wanted to talk about was the availability of financing and how the subprime market could potentially impact our business.

4 Ohio has seen a rapid drop in automotive jobs, with Honda being one of the few employers that held steady. What's the outlook for Honda?

Our employment base is going to be stable. Because of the Indiana plant, we've had to make some adjustments to (expand) some our facilities, which has required us to add a few people. Our suppliers have had to add people, so overall, we estimate that's resulted in over a billion-dollar impact to Ohio. Ohio's really the center of the heartbeat of Honda manufacturing in North America.

5 Are there any new models or expansion plans that could bring more jobs and increase the headcount in central Ohio?

We're not announcing any new models or changes right now in Ohio. We've shifted production to increase production on Civics and more fuel-efficient vehicles, but right now, we don't have any plans to bring any additional models.

6 Honda has plans to introduce a hybrid-only model that will be built in Japan. What are the prospects for Honda eventually building hybrids in the U.S. and how might Ohio figure into that process?

You can never say never, but right now, this is a brand new global model that's going to be distributed all over the world, with the planned production around 200,000. We have a saying at Honda that with a new car, there is a mother ship, which basically means where it's designed and developed and originally built. And that mother ship is in Japan for this car.

7 What is Acura's niche in the luxury market and how do you respond to critics who say the brand doesn't have a clear enough identity?

We've had some issues over the past about getting the resources and the right product for the market at the time, but I'll say this: The future for Acura is very clear for us and where we want to take it. We know what the next five- to six-year product plan is. As we redefine what the next generation of these models are going to be, it's going to take us into the top-tier luxury segment.

8 Honda never got into the larger SUV V-8 engine market. Are you now glad the company made that decision, considering the market declines for those vehicles?

We feel like maybe we were smart and lucky. We felt a lot of pressure when the large truck got to more than 50 percent of the market, with a large percentage of those with V-8 engines. But our plan was to stay with our core direction of where we wanted to grow, and building fuel-efficient cars that were reliable. Now they are saying the market is coming back to us.

9 Any more green cars coming down the line?

Our global strategy for the hybrid is to grow that segment significantly. We're anticipating 500,000 units a year . In addition to the new global hybrid that we will introduce next spring, we'll also announce that we're going to bring in a model based on the CR-V.

10 Any parting thoughts?

The people in Ohio should feel comfortable with Honda. We've made major investments here and we're here to stay. We're going to continue to grow our business and we have a huge contingency of research and development here that are involved in developing new products for us. The work ethic of the people in the Midwest was a strong reason why we built plants here. We're bullish on the future of Ohio.

LexFather

1. Do they not read this chart. Strong?

7. More talk and not walking it. You don't just jump into Tier 1 territory. This is just more evidence they don't know anything about the luxury market.
8.Their V-6s guzzle like V-8s.
9 and 6. I am sure their new hybrids are going to be really top notch stuff.