jwaters

FWIW, I've heard Lexus is going to make the next-gen ES more of it's own car and less of a super luxury Camry. I'm not sure if it's going to use it's own platform, engine or what, but that's the rumor.

pagemaster

I hope so. I just compared a ES 350 to Nissan Maxima...The Maxima outdoes the Lexus in hp, performance, interior features, price etc.

There was a time where Lexus was leaps ahead of the competition. Not the case anymore. You can pretty much go to any large manufacturer and get a car with features that you had to pay a premium for years ago.

Things like power telescoping steering wheel, dual sunroofs, push button start, 0-60mph in 6 sec, auto up/down windows, memory seats, heated/cooling seats, Xenon lamps, navigation etc can now be had at any large manufacturer on cars that are less that $40k

Also..you no longer need to go to Honda or Toyota for 100,000 mile reliability as most vehicles now will at least make it at least that far or will have a powertrain warranty.

Toyota really needs to evolve the next generation Lexus models into something that is ahead of the competition.

LexBob2

The ES has always had a conservative (aka "mature") following, and don't necessarily need to be state of the art to sell well. I think Lexus can move slower in updating this model vs. IS, GS etc. and not loose too many sales. It's their best selling sedan and second best selling vehicle after the RX, so my guess is they'll keep it conservative and evolutionary vs. revolutionary.

Sal Collaziano

This is going a little off topic - but since we're talking about Lexus moving upmarket or down - and prices....... Mercedes quality has gone UP. BMW quality has gone UP. The vehicles are becoming more reliable.. Lexus on the other hand - was already at the top - as good as can be. From there, there's nowhere to go but down - and reliability and quality has gone DOWN - at least a little. However, Lexus prices have also gone UP. This is a problem.

LexFather

Good observation but it seems there is space for all 3 to sell 250k units a year in the USA. Lexus amazingly sells best with the worst lease rates and a very small lineup in comparison to the Germans.

I see the 3 continuing to battle. BMW has a chance this year to take the sales crown Lexus has held the last 8 years.

LexFather

As for the Genesis, while I like it, people simply will avoid it b/c of the brand. Yes Hyundai has made great strides but not just 10 or 20 years ago they made the WORST cars sold here and that is fresh still in many peoples minds. The image of the brand is not even on par with Honda/Toyota/Ford/Nissan either.

I fully expect them to sadly sit on lots and resale will plummet and financing/lease/incentive deals galore for them. This also is a tough time to launch an expensive car let alone Hyundai in this economy here.

The Genesis is good but its not 1989 again, outside Acura, Saab, no one is really asleep anymore.

LexBob2

I don't have strong feelings either way for the Genesis. The general car buying public will determine how successful or not the car is.

I hope that it is a success. Competition is good and the consumer wins in terms of better cars, better pricing etc.

It is tough time to be launching a new model into a new segment (luxury) with a V8 option (gas prices) where Hyundai doesn't now compete. A slam dunk is not assured, but maybe they've taken that into account in their initial projections. It might take a couple of years to break through but Hyundai has been patient in other segments.

jwaters

IIRC, they've set their sales target at 50k units per year, with roughly 80% of sales being the V6 model and 20% for the V8. FWIW, 50k units annually is roughly equivalent to sales of the IS250/350 and far less than the ES350.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I was just checking resale values for the Azera, for comparison.

You can get an '06 Azera Limited with less then 20k miles for half the original MSRP...

link13

I had high hopes for the Genesis and loved the idea of a V8 luxury car for about $40K. When I saw pictures, I couldn't wait to see one in person. I finally did see one about 2 months ago at the Dana Point boat show. I was disappointed. It just didn't have the visual appeal that I had expected after seeing the pictures. I feel the same way about the Jaguar XF.

LexBob2

The Azera is another car that on paper seems to offer A LOT for the money vs. its competition (Avalon, Maxima, Lucerne etc.) but hasn't come close to those cars in sales. The V6 Genesis will no doubt take sales from it too. Just goes to show that it takes more than just pricing and feature content to be a success.

TJW98LS

iTrader: (1)

I actually read that wrong, I thought he meant "heavy" as in body-roll.

Im not going change the fact that I hate Korean vehicles in order to please people on the forum...so I'll continue to bash the automaker all I want to. I dont need to see positives in this vehicle, because they are of no concern to me.

Lexus/Toyota did it, and im not saying Hyundai cant try, but I will not support their efforts.

FKL

Audi has said their goal is to surpass BMW by 2015. Seems plausable if you've seen their sales growth over the last year.

As for the Genesis, I call it a valiant first effort. The car has many positive attributes, and for the price, it makes a strong first impression. Not sure what the OP mean't in regards to "heavy steering"? Maybe he's just used to the feather light steering Toyota dials in?

jwaters

There's nothing quite like irrational hatred of an automaker. Oh well, you have every right to "hate" on Hyundai all you want. Just like Euro car lovers have every right to "hate" on Lexus for being nothing more than a fancy Toyota.

LexFather

No different that the irrational "jesus I am" posts like this one. People are entitled to not like something and remember this is a LEXUS forum. There are now 2 threads with you in the GEnesis in it and we can appreciate you sharing your experience with it since you own one. This forum as you can see has plenty of people who like the Genesis but you will have people on this forum (and more so on other forums) who simply won't like and will never like it.

Be careful not to "crusade" the Genesis here and on other forums, rather educate people on the car. I've been there, done that and it rarely works out.


Guys/Gals I do ask if you really have nothing good to say about the car or brand, keep it short and simple.