Young drivers v.s. Old drivers
08-08-08, 10:54 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
08-08-08, 11:22 AM
#32
I'm saying that one kind of experience matters on the track. A much different kind matters on the street. Although the two are not entirely mutually exclusive, they often do not mix.
Does not experience means time ?
08-08-08, 11:55 AM
#33
Pole Position
If you had your own insurance company, how would you determine who the higher risk (bad) drivers were? Well, since younger drivers are getting more tickets and making more claims, I would say younger drivers would be riskier.
08-08-08, 12:06 PM
#34
Start everyone at the same rate, and then based on driving records of the INDIVIDUAL you can adjust the rates. Don't group people together, that's plain wrong. So you have a study group of 10 teens. One of them wrecks, so that automatically makes all the teens a possible hazard? IMO that's BS, and current insurance systems have nothing to stop them from overcharging
08-08-08, 12:10 PM
#35
No. Being a good driver on the track is not necessarily the same as being a good driver on the street. Tracks don't have stop signs, speed limits, traffic lights, speed bumps, 18-wheelers crowding lanes, wall-to-wall rush hour traffic, or kids and pets running out into the street with little or no warning.
For proof, look no further than many professional racing drivers. On the street, they know the dangers involved, drive accordingly, and often make Grandma look aggressive in comparison.
For proof, look no further than many professional racing drivers. On the street, they know the dangers involved, drive accordingly, and often make Grandma look aggressive in comparison.
Ive noticed that the more training I had the less aggressive I'd drive on the street...however, Its due to the fact that I dont trust other 'normal' drivers.
I would trust an older person because of the time theyve had behind the wheel. I know what to expect from them....a younger driver doesnt know what to expect from themselves, let alone the driver next to them. Young guys have more expensive and life threatening accidents due to speed and wreckless driving...so they pay more for ins. fact.
Kids who complain....are kids and expected to do so. When u get older you'll understand that you have to earn everything in life. Including good ins. rates
....It is what it is....
I would trust experience over anything when it comes to cars.
Dont get me wrong, I do way more than my fair share of 'stuff' on the road
but I also dont complain if I get caught and stuck with tickets n stuff
08-08-08, 01:42 PM
#36
Lead Lap
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I just got my license I was so careful and I never ever sped because I was so scared.
2 weeks later I am flying down every single road and doing 80 on the highways and trying to get to every destination like I am on fire
2 years later I am back to driving slow and safe
Must be the car, Lexus makes me feel more calm even though its got more power than my old teg
2 weeks later I am flying down every single road and doing 80 on the highways and trying to get to every destination like I am on fire
2 years later I am back to driving slow and safe
Must be the car, Lexus makes me feel more calm even though its got more power than my old tegLook in my signature and you will see that I agree with you. Granted the Integra was my third car, I didn't really learn my lesson until after it.
I find another of old drivers having an inability to maintain lanes, turning into the outside lane in front you, and of course driving slow. And then of course there are young driver's who use every square inch in the road to make sure they get pass you.
But guess what, a bad driver is a bad driver. Good is good. plain and simple.
08-08-08, 02:30 PM
#37
Out of Warranty
Driving on the track and on the street require largely separate skillsets. A fast driver on the track must have a feel for his car, lightning quick reaction times, and at least some experience at high levels of performance. He operates at a high key with intense concentration at all times. His job is made easier by the fact that all of his fellow drivers are similarly skilled, qualified, and focused. The traffic he encounters is (hopefully) going his way, without high closing speeds there is ample time to plan you moves. If he is competing in a regular series, the racing driver knows his competition - who is skilled, who is weak, and can adjust his strategy to that knowledge.
On the street, you are surrounded by complete strangers whose driving skills you cannot trust. Not only is skill a wide variable, but concentration, mental acuity, distractions, and simple motor skills run the gamut from highly-tuned to the near dead. Add to this mix of drivers an environment that is constantly changing. Rather than making repeated laps over the same course, you are exposed to a changing road environment. The fact that there are other motorists coming toward you at a similar speed to yours means that at least half of your environment is closing on you at double your traffic speed. Add in the lack of safety barriers, roll cages, helmets, safety harnesses, fuel cells, and a dozen other safety items, and you are at a considerably higher risk driving on the public street.
Age of the driver isn't necessarily a factor in skill level. We know that the older we get, we have more difficulty maintaining focus and decision-making ability. By the same token, the brain of a sub-21 year old (this varies by individual) hasn't yet developed the prefrontal cortex that is critical to decision-making. Kids don't make stupid mistakes necessarily, they just aren't yet fully equipped to handle the rapid-fire decision-making process required in an emergency. In that way, they are very much like their grandparents.
On the street, you are surrounded by complete strangers whose driving skills you cannot trust. Not only is skill a wide variable, but concentration, mental acuity, distractions, and simple motor skills run the gamut from highly-tuned to the near dead. Add to this mix of drivers an environment that is constantly changing. Rather than making repeated laps over the same course, you are exposed to a changing road environment. The fact that there are other motorists coming toward you at a similar speed to yours means that at least half of your environment is closing on you at double your traffic speed. Add in the lack of safety barriers, roll cages, helmets, safety harnesses, fuel cells, and a dozen other safety items, and you are at a considerably higher risk driving on the public street.
Age of the driver isn't necessarily a factor in skill level. We know that the older we get, we have more difficulty maintaining focus and decision-making ability. By the same token, the brain of a sub-21 year old (this varies by individual) hasn't yet developed the prefrontal cortex that is critical to decision-making. Kids don't make stupid mistakes necessarily, they just aren't yet fully equipped to handle the rapid-fire decision-making process required in an emergency. In that way, they are very much like their grandparents.
08-09-08, 08:20 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Start everyone at the same rate, and then based on driving records of the INDIVIDUAL you can adjust the rates. Don't group people together, that's plain wrong. So you have a study group of 10 teens. One of them wrecks, so that automatically makes all the teens a possible hazard? IMO that's BS, and current insurance systems have nothing to stop them from overcharging
I agree with this.......I've always felt that way. As a teen-ager, though not perfect (I had one significant accident on an icy side street, and learned one or two things the hard way), I was, by far, a more sensible driver than most people my age (and so was my closest friend...he was a car buff at that age just like me). We both had much cleaner driving records than most of our schoolmates.
08-09-08, 08:57 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
How would I do it you ask? I would base it off of who actually gets the infractions, but that can't happen cause its too honest....
Start everyone at the same rate, and then based on driving records of the INDIVIDUAL you can adjust the rates. Don't group people together, that's plain wrong. So you have a study group of 10 teens. One of them wrecks, so that automatically makes all the teens a possible hazard? IMO that's BS, and current insurance systems have nothing to stop them from overcharging
Start everyone at the same rate, and then based on driving records of the INDIVIDUAL you can adjust the rates. Don't group people together, that's plain wrong. So you have a study group of 10 teens. One of them wrecks, so that automatically makes all the teens a possible hazard? IMO that's BS, and current insurance systems have nothing to stop them from overcharging
That's not how insurance works - you are paying against the LIKELY RISK of something happening, and the reality is, if you're a young driver, you ARE more likely to have an accident.
08-09-08, 10:45 AM
#40
Bit, are you sure it can't work like that? I am assuming that if you start rates at SENSIBLE rates, more people will flock towards you, bringing in a larger customer base. If anything you would probably have a greater percentage of customers than compared to other companies.
Typical teenager costs (liability, and monthly):
Them *(typical insurance companies now): 110 a month
Us: 50-60 a month
If you offer lower prices more people will flock to you and easily make up for the lower prices. However there is a negative to this side too. With more people under your insurance company you have greater chances for accident payouts.
And even if you raise the rates after said accident, what if the rates are still LOWER than competing companies? What if it goes from 50-60 to 80-90? Or what if your company offers accident forgiveness? All factors that can come into play.
Personally I just don't believe they should be allowed to prejudge folks, because that's not "The American Way".
Typical teenager costs (liability, and monthly):
Them *(typical insurance companies now): 110 a month
Us: 50-60 a month
If you offer lower prices more people will flock to you and easily make up for the lower prices. However there is a negative to this side too. With more people under your insurance company you have greater chances for accident payouts.
And even if you raise the rates after said accident, what if the rates are still LOWER than competing companies? What if it goes from 50-60 to 80-90? Or what if your company offers accident forgiveness? All factors that can come into play.
Personally I just don't believe they should be allowed to prejudge folks, because that's not "The American Way".
08-09-08, 12:03 PM
#41
Lead Lap
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree with alot everyone has said in here.. and basically like the stereotype: The younger drivers drive faster, and after there first year of driving, many are overconfident (as i was until i racked up some speeding tickets), and will use that overconfidence to weave on highways, speed in 30mph neighborhoods, etc.
The older drivers have become complacent, i catch my parents zoning out on highways in the right lane going 70, and have been in the car when a parent has driven by the destination and been like wait where were we going? in my opinion (again, overconfident youngster) going 80 with my eyes popping out of my skull paying complete attention to every single detail on the road is much safer vs my father going 70 with his eyes 1/4 of the way open, forgetting where he's driving to.
Also, something many may have not taken into account, but when a young driver is behind the wheel, he or she has just passed his/her roadtest very recently. My uncle had to retake his road test at age 45 and failed it practically immediatly because he put one hand on the back of the passenger seat to turn over his shoulder wihle backing up, leaving one hand no the wheel - FAIL. These 50-80 year olds have not had their driving skills checked for nearly 30-50 something years! the DMV never calls them and says oh hey your eyes got a hell of a lot worse since 1954 when you took your test.. so we're going to pull your license!
My grandpa was an army pilot when he was 20, his vision when he was going for his drivers license was perfect. He now sports about 4 pairs of glasses, each needed for a special occasion, - distance, light, size... thankfully, he's admitted that he can no longer safely drive, and keeps his car use at an extreme minimum.. but there are many elderly out there who's ability to drive has severly diminished, but no laws in place make them retake their test or get their skills re-evaluated. This is why the old lady on the highway going 40 is more dangerous than the 20 year old going 80, no-one has to swerve and slam on their brakes for the kid, he's making his own way, and if he gets in an accident, he's going to rear-end someone and insurance wise, its his fault, whereas when traffic is moving at 70 and there is one granny doing 40... i feel its much more dangerous
kids driving have better reflexes, reaction times, vision, hearing, personal mobility (my dad can hardly look over his shoulder to back out of the driveway, and my mom actually pulled her neck the other day checking her blindspot on the highway lol), and attention span. We also are more technologically advanced to deal with the new computers and dashes in these modern cars. I spent about 3-4 hours (over the span of a few days) to explain how to work the basic functions on my dads nav system, and he still cant figure it out (we got in a fight yesterday because iw as driving his car and he was passenger, and he wanted to put on a CD rather than the XM radio, and to do so he reached across my chest in bumper to bumper traffic to press the Mode button on the left edge of the steering wheel, rather than the Disc button on the center console (he's not too bright, and actually yelled at me for yelling at him for reaching over me)
There is no clear answer to this, each driving generation has its own pro's and con's, and the situation in which the car/driver is in will determine who is the safer driver. (Young speeder in a local neighborhood = Danger.. Old lady at night on the highway = Danger. Young speeder on the highway = a good time and maybe a speeding ticket, Old lady in a local neighborhood = a peaceful ride..)
The older drivers have become complacent, i catch my parents zoning out on highways in the right lane going 70, and have been in the car when a parent has driven by the destination and been like wait where were we going? in my opinion (again, overconfident youngster) going 80 with my eyes popping out of my skull paying complete attention to every single detail on the road is much safer vs my father going 70 with his eyes 1/4 of the way open, forgetting where he's driving to.
Also, something many may have not taken into account, but when a young driver is behind the wheel, he or she has just passed his/her roadtest very recently. My uncle had to retake his road test at age 45 and failed it practically immediatly because he put one hand on the back of the passenger seat to turn over his shoulder wihle backing up, leaving one hand no the wheel - FAIL. These 50-80 year olds have not had their driving skills checked for nearly 30-50 something years! the DMV never calls them and says oh hey your eyes got a hell of a lot worse since 1954 when you took your test.. so we're going to pull your license!
My grandpa was an army pilot when he was 20, his vision when he was going for his drivers license was perfect. He now sports about 4 pairs of glasses, each needed for a special occasion, - distance, light, size... thankfully, he's admitted that he can no longer safely drive, and keeps his car use at an extreme minimum.. but there are many elderly out there who's ability to drive has severly diminished, but no laws in place make them retake their test or get their skills re-evaluated. This is why the old lady on the highway going 40 is more dangerous than the 20 year old going 80, no-one has to swerve and slam on their brakes for the kid, he's making his own way, and if he gets in an accident, he's going to rear-end someone and insurance wise, its his fault, whereas when traffic is moving at 70 and there is one granny doing 40... i feel its much more dangerous
kids driving have better reflexes, reaction times, vision, hearing, personal mobility (my dad can hardly look over his shoulder to back out of the driveway, and my mom actually pulled her neck the other day checking her blindspot on the highway lol), and attention span. We also are more technologically advanced to deal with the new computers and dashes in these modern cars. I spent about 3-4 hours (over the span of a few days) to explain how to work the basic functions on my dads nav system, and he still cant figure it out (we got in a fight yesterday because iw as driving his car and he was passenger, and he wanted to put on a CD rather than the XM radio, and to do so he reached across my chest in bumper to bumper traffic to press the Mode button on the left edge of the steering wheel, rather than the Disc button on the center console (he's not too bright, and actually yelled at me for yelling at him for reaching over me)
There is no clear answer to this, each driving generation has its own pro's and con's, and the situation in which the car/driver is in will determine who is the safer driver. (Young speeder in a local neighborhood = Danger.. Old lady at night on the highway = Danger. Young speeder on the highway = a good time and maybe a speeding ticket, Old lady in a local neighborhood = a peaceful ride..)
08-09-08, 12:09 PM
#42
Lead Lap
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"you are paying against the LIKELY RISK of something happening, and the reality is, if you're a young driver, you ARE more likely to have an accident."
show me stats then, that the majority of all accidents that occur are of a driver under the age of... what do we say is a young driver? 24? 25? because it seems amazing to me how often this line gets said, yet how many 18-25 year olds are on the road as often as the older drivers, and how is it that we are all hitting eachother (younger kids)? This gets said a hell of alot but i've never seen any proof of it..
I'd say the insurance compnay starts a kid out at a high rate because they don't know what his driving is like. Theyre saying - okay, if this kid is a bad driver, its cool we have him in at this rate and it works for us, and if he's a good driver, we lower his rates after a while... My dad has been w/ his insurance compnay for 30 years, and has no accidents or tickets, hense, his rates are low.
show me stats then, that the majority of all accidents that occur are of a driver under the age of... what do we say is a young driver? 24? 25? because it seems amazing to me how often this line gets said, yet how many 18-25 year olds are on the road as often as the older drivers, and how is it that we are all hitting eachother (younger kids)? This gets said a hell of alot but i've never seen any proof of it..
I'd say the insurance compnay starts a kid out at a high rate because they don't know what his driving is like. Theyre saying - okay, if this kid is a bad driver, its cool we have him in at this rate and it works for us, and if he's a good driver, we lower his rates after a while... My dad has been w/ his insurance compnay for 30 years, and has no accidents or tickets, hense, his rates are low.
08-09-08, 12:21 PM
#43
I have also noticed plenty of times girls putting on makeup while driving, eating salads while driving, Texting while driving *(no kidding this chick was swerving left and right, and when I passed her I saw her looking down at her phone texting), and many other irrational things while driving. Heck, once I saw a lady doing her hair with both hands while driving, swerving left and right.
Also in my area alone I've noticed more accidents caused by teenage girls than guys. Yes there were plenty of accidents by guys too, but the majority I've seen were girls. I personally think its an easy scapegoat to blame the guys since they won't fight about it. They won't scream out that its sexist to charge them more, and as long as you provide some bs proof, people won't complain.
08-09-08, 12:33 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Bit, are you sure it can't work like that? I am assuming that if you start rates at SENSIBLE rates, more people will flock towards you, bringing in a larger customer base. If anything you would probably have a greater percentage of customers than compared to other companies.
Typical teenager costs (liability, and monthly):
Them *(typical insurance companies now): 110 a month
Us: 50-60 a month
If you offer lower prices more people will flock to you and easily make up for the lower prices. However there is a negative to this side too. With more people under your insurance company you have greater chances for accident payouts.
And even if you raise the rates after said accident, what if the rates are still LOWER than competing companies? What if it goes from 50-60 to 80-90? Or what if your company offers accident forgiveness? All factors that can come into play.
Personally I just don't believe they should be allowed to prejudge folks, because that's not "The American Way".
Typical teenager costs (liability, and monthly):
Them *(typical insurance companies now): 110 a month
Us: 50-60 a month
If you offer lower prices more people will flock to you and easily make up for the lower prices. However there is a negative to this side too. With more people under your insurance company you have greater chances for accident payouts.
And even if you raise the rates after said accident, what if the rates are still LOWER than competing companies? What if it goes from 50-60 to 80-90? Or what if your company offers accident forgiveness? All factors that can come into play.
Personally I just don't believe they should be allowed to prejudge folks, because that's not "The American Way".
Actually, Geico isn't too far off what you say, they tend to lowball rates, fight any payout very hard, and just DROP people who have more than 1 accident.
