The Stick Shift
08-13-08, 12:45 PM
#61
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There wouldn't be enough of a demand for Lexus to bother offering a stick shift in their sedans. The dealers wouldn't want to have one or two sitting on their lots in hopes someone would buy one either.
In 2007 21,314 GS350's were sold. Say 5% were sticks (and that might be generous), thats only 1,065 for the full year. Divide that by the # of dealers and you have less than 5 cars on average per dealer for the entire year, maybe.
In 2007 21,314 GS350's were sold. Say 5% were sticks (and that might be generous), thats only 1,065 for the full year. Divide that by the # of dealers and you have less than 5 cars on average per dealer for the entire year, maybe.
08-13-08, 12:59 PM
#62
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08-13-08, 01:25 PM
#63
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08-13-08, 02:31 PM
#65
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I consider "sporting cars" as one that can be tracked....as much as Honduh done in taming FWD torque steer, it still cannot match quick steering rwd chassis vehicles. As for their SH-AWD offerings, when it is competitive track wise w/ an EVO / WRX, then i'll be a believer, otherwise:
IS > TSX / TL
GS > TL / RL
IS > TSX / TL
GS > TL / RL
Anyway, from a sporty driving perspective, most would agree that the TL is more sporting than the ES (its competition, NOT the IS) and that the RL is more sporting than the GS - alas, this is a bit off topic and it is purely subjective. I'm sure you could start a thread if you like (you may want to leave out the personal attacks on skater however...)
08-13-08, 02:44 PM
#66
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I don't think that there are too many people who "track" their Lexus vehicles - I'm sure they exist but they are rarer than a stick shift SC
Anyway, from a sporty driving perspective, most would agree that the TL is more sporting than the ES (its competition, NOT the IS) and that the RL is more sporting than the GS - alas, this is a bit off topic and it is purely subjective. I'm sure you could start a thread if you like (you may want to leave out the personal attacks on skater however...)
Anyway, from a sporty driving perspective, most would agree that the TL is more sporting than the ES (its competition, NOT the IS) and that the RL is more sporting than the GS - alas, this is a bit off topic and it is purely subjective. I'm sure you could start a thread if you like (you may want to leave out the personal attacks on skater however...)
As for personal attacks, there was none...just clarification with a lot of sarcasm. 
As I've basically said before, people are more concerned with image than actual performance it seems...
08-13-08, 02:49 PM
#67
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Wow great thread, not sure how I missed it. My 2 cents (counts at 20 bucks though)
1. Lexus manuals SUCK. I own an ES manual, I've driven SC 300/IS 300 and IS 250 manual and they all give me the runs. The IS 300 was the best then the SC. Compared to say a Honda shifter, they are bulky, they are not smooth, they are IMO a hassle. So Lexus offering a manual is not necessarily a good thing.
2. The IS and GS are the sporty Lexus but its CLEAR that the LS/ES/RX dominate what people think is a Lexus. Luxury and no sport. Most potential buyers simply ARE NOT looking for a manual Lexus.
3. So Lexus either needs to go all out offering better manuals and putting them in more vehicles or just develop THE BEST automatic sporting trannies, like in the IS-F. I seriously doubt most anyone could drive the IS-F faster if it had a manual as the automatic shifts so quick its not even funny.
4. The market for manuals continues to decline. The majority of Corvettes sold are AUTOMATICS With growing traffic and a new generation of people who can't even drive a manual, it will be a lost art.
5. Automatics are just incredible today. In the past manuals had a lower MSRP and offered better economy. Today its the opposite, just look at the figures of the IS 250 Auto vs Manual. The Auto gets better MPG! Then they shift smooth and you can get as many gears in an auto as a manual.
I also totally disagree that Lexus is the least sporting brand. The IS 300 is sportier than anything Acura and Infiniti ever sold, the engine just was not as peppy as you would want. The SC 300/400 was always praised for its handling and the 2GS was as well. The new IS 250/350 is very sporty and the 3GS is sportier IMO than the RL.
The IS-F is also sportier than anything Acura/Infiniti has ever produced.
Lexus problem besides crappy manuals is non communicative steering. That is their biggest issue, it simply makes you feel detached from the road.
Thing is Lexus is the 4th best selling brand in the world and the biggest here for years. They do VERY WELL clearly selling AUTOMATICS.
I proposed YEARS ago, what Toyota SHOULD HAVE done is keep Lexus about Luxury and create a NEW luxury brand to truly offer sporting cars.
Lexus just has a huge issue convincing the public it can do both.
1. Lexus manuals SUCK. I own an ES manual, I've driven SC 300/IS 300 and IS 250 manual and they all give me the runs. The IS 300 was the best then the SC. Compared to say a Honda shifter, they are bulky, they are not smooth, they are IMO a hassle. So Lexus offering a manual is not necessarily a good thing.
2. The IS and GS are the sporty Lexus but its CLEAR that the LS/ES/RX dominate what people think is a Lexus. Luxury and no sport. Most potential buyers simply ARE NOT looking for a manual Lexus.
3. So Lexus either needs to go all out offering better manuals and putting them in more vehicles or just develop THE BEST automatic sporting trannies, like in the IS-F. I seriously doubt most anyone could drive the IS-F faster if it had a manual as the automatic shifts so quick its not even funny.
4. The market for manuals continues to decline. The majority of Corvettes sold are AUTOMATICS
With growing traffic and a new generation of people who can't even drive a manual, it will be a lost art.5. Automatics are just incredible today. In the past manuals had a lower MSRP and offered better economy. Today its the opposite, just look at the figures of the IS 250 Auto vs Manual. The Auto gets better MPG! Then they shift smooth and you can get as many gears in an auto as a manual.
I also totally disagree that Lexus is the least sporting brand. The IS 300 is sportier than anything Acura and Infiniti ever sold, the engine just was not as peppy as you would want. The SC 300/400 was always praised for its handling and the 2GS was as well. The new IS 250/350 is very sporty and the 3GS is sportier IMO than the RL.
The IS-F is also sportier than anything Acura/Infiniti has ever produced.
Lexus problem besides crappy manuals is non communicative steering. That is their biggest issue, it simply makes you feel detached from the road.
Thing is Lexus is the 4th best selling brand in the world and the biggest here for years. They do VERY WELL clearly selling AUTOMATICS.
I proposed YEARS ago, what Toyota SHOULD HAVE done is keep Lexus about Luxury and create a NEW luxury brand to truly offer sporting cars.
Lexus just has a huge issue convincing the public it can do both.
08-13-08, 02:53 PM
#68
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Everyone has their preferences and since the fun factor is subjective, it can be equally fun driving an automatic or a manual tranny. So the argument about which is more fun to drive can stop here.
The problem here however is that Lexus does not give their customers that option like other car makers do. Instead Lexus decides what's better for you whether you like it or not
The problem here however is that Lexus does not give their customers that option like other car makers do. Instead Lexus decides what's better for you whether you like it or not
The funny thing is say Lexus did offer great manual IS/GS cars, would people here actually buy them? I am not sure. In the past we have seen so many hype on the internet about a car and when it debuts, its freaking crickets
and those same people don't buy em. 
If you want a fun RWD manual sedan with luxury the 335 and G35 do a great job of it, just a shame you have to leave the Lexus brand.
08-13-08, 02:57 PM
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08-13-08, 03:07 PM
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I've driven both and they both are good cars, the 335 being the top choice, the G35 being a great value alternative. If the IS 350 had a manual, IMO it kind of would just blend it, I don't see it standing out much and I doubt the manual would be as precise as the 335 (the G35 could use some work but its not bad).
Here is what I am talking about with Lexus problem. The IS 350 F-sport IMO is just FANTASTIC to drive, the additions really REALLY transform the IS. THere is minimal marketing for it in magazines, I've seen it in Import car mags only and small one page ads in R&T and C&D etc. In other words NO ONE KNOWS about the superb additions or complete package you can get for the IS.
Even here, only a few people have bought the parts, it hasn't been a landslide of people buying F-sport parts. Most IS owners just want a nice good priced Lexus that is stylish with luxury and features. We have some wonderfully modded 2IS here but I doubt they count for 20% of IS's sold.
Here is what I am talking about with Lexus problem. The IS 350 F-sport IMO is just FANTASTIC to drive, the additions really REALLY transform the IS. THere is minimal marketing for it in magazines, I've seen it in Import car mags only and small one page ads in R&T and C&D etc. In other words NO ONE KNOWS about the superb additions or complete package you can get for the IS.
Even here, only a few people have bought the parts, it hasn't been a landslide of people buying F-sport parts. Most IS owners just want a nice good priced Lexus that is stylish with luxury and features. We have some wonderfully modded 2IS here but I doubt they count for 20% of IS's sold.
08-13-08, 03:11 PM
#71
Not sure how I missed this post either. I will add my 2 cents since I just got a manual. Most automatics are getting very solid. However, the Auto in the IS350 does NOT shift as fast and quick as I would have liked. In fact it felt to automated. The BMW 335i autos are very quick shifting and I could see getting one of those. However, in the end, I have never owned a 6MT. So I got a 335i coupe in a stick. I like it just fine since I don't drive it all week in traffic. If I had to drive in traffic regularly than I would have gotten the auto, case closed. However, a weekend car or track car should be a stick. It is a twice or 3 times a week type of car that should be different.
Whoever said they don't have a lot of manuals on the lot at BMW dealerships is right. They are a dying breed by many people still want them and need to order them. There was one(1) on the lot were I was and 2 manual M3's. I drove all three of them and it was pretty fun. I do think that most of BMW owners who get a stick order it from the factory so you can't consider that % from the lot. I think more than 5% of Bimmer owners have sticks if it is a 3 series.
BTW, the IS-F being better than all acuras isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't put the IS-F over an NSX. Then again, an NSX isn't in production anymore so that is just a different look at things.
Lexus won't make many more 6MT's or manuals because it is primarilty a Luxury brand. The IS-F could have used a manual option for some people like me. Not to say that I would want all 8 gears but a 6 speed gearbox would be nice.
Whoever said they don't have a lot of manuals on the lot at BMW dealerships is right. They are a dying breed by many people still want them and need to order them. There was one(1) on the lot were I was and 2 manual M3's. I drove all three of them and it was pretty fun. I do think that most of BMW owners who get a stick order it from the factory so you can't consider that % from the lot. I think more than 5% of Bimmer owners have sticks if it is a 3 series.
BTW, the IS-F being better than all acuras isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't put the IS-F over an NSX. Then again, an NSX isn't in production anymore so that is just a different look at things.
Lexus won't make many more 6MT's or manuals because it is primarilty a Luxury brand. The IS-F could have used a manual option for some people like me. Not to say that I would want all 8 gears but a 6 speed gearbox would be nice.
08-13-08, 03:13 PM
#72
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If they can bring back the GSR with RWD, I'd get one with a quickness.
08-13-08, 03:18 PM
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BTW, the IS-F being better than all acuras isn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't put the IS-F over an NSX. Then again, an NSX isn't in production anymore so that is just a different look at things.
Lexus won't make many more 6MT's or manuals because it is primarilty a Luxury brand. The IS-F could have used a manual option for some people like me. Not to say that I would want all 8 gears but a 6 speed gearbox would be nice.
one of the BEST handling/drivers cars ever made.
08-15-08, 09:05 AM
#74
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So I was thinking about it. Toyota has this great, potent 3.5L engine, but no where is it offered in a MT. At least not that I know of. Am I wrong?
I thought maybe the Solara, but its still running on the 210 HP 3.3L. Yikes. Perhaps the Aurion?
I thought maybe the Solara, but its still running on the 210 HP 3.3L. Yikes. Perhaps the Aurion?
08-15-08, 09:26 AM
#75
You are right sir. It is pretty odd to have such a good engine and a wussy transmission for all cars. They should at least have a good 6MT for the ISX50 cars, including the IS-F(sorry guys)
Anyway, if you have more than two cars in your garage than you should have at least one manual car.
Anyway, if you have more than two cars in your garage than you should have at least one manual car.