The Stick Shift
08-09-08, 07:58 PM
#1
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The Stick Shift
Where are they? The IS250 is the only one available from Lexus currently and I believe that the original ES250 had one. So what gives?
Do people not want them? Am I the only one? I know that back in the 80s most of the BMWs sold were manuals. Today, much fewer are manuals, but you can still get every variant of the gasoline 3 and 5 series in MT and even the X3 can be had with one. So I look at my dad who still weilds a stick at his right hand at 56 years old, but would enjoy a Lexus that had the same. But they aren't there.
Why only the IS250? Its a weak engine for a heavy vehicle. Come on, even the TL can be had with a stick. Why not at least the IS350?
Would anyone drive a 6MT GS or SC? What about an LF-A?
I'm just wondering how I am supposed to take the F division seriously when they only offer autos. Yes, the 8 speed is cool and I have seen the IS-F on a dyno. Neato. But to me true sport is rowing your own gears and I feel that this skill is something thats being forgotten.
Do people not want them? Am I the only one? I know that back in the 80s most of the BMWs sold were manuals. Today, much fewer are manuals, but you can still get every variant of the gasoline 3 and 5 series in MT and even the X3 can be had with one. So I look at my dad who still weilds a stick at his right hand at 56 years old, but would enjoy a Lexus that had the same. But they aren't there.
Why only the IS250? Its a weak engine for a heavy vehicle. Come on, even the TL can be had with a stick. Why not at least the IS350?
Would anyone drive a 6MT GS or SC? What about an LF-A?
I'm just wondering how I am supposed to take the F division seriously when they only offer autos. Yes, the 8 speed is cool and I have seen the IS-F on a dyno. Neato. But to me true sport is rowing your own gears and I feel that this skill is something thats being forgotten.
08-09-08, 09:31 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
I'm just wondering how I am supposed to take the F division seriously when they only offer autos. Yes, the 8 speed is cool and I have seen the IS-F on a dyno. Neato. But to me true sport is rowing your own gears and I feel that this skill is something thats being forgotten.
However automatics have come a long, long way. The IS-F's automatic gearbox is a technological marvel, shifts faster than a clutch-manual and has 8 ratios. The IS-F in my opinion is a car that can do without a manual, considering it has a very flat torque curve and relatively low redline compared to the M3 which has a 6MT.
08-09-08, 09:33 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
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Do people not want them?
So I look at my dad who still weilds a stick at his right hand at 56 years old, but would enjoy a Lexus that had the same. But they aren't there.
I think a big factor on this is increasing traffic. People buy luxury cars generally to have a serene drive with LESS EFFORT AND INVOLVEMENT, so a stick doesn't make sense.
08-09-08, 09:36 PM
#4
Hacked CL to become a Mod
If you see their lineup, you can tell that Lexus is becoming more and more luxury...and like most luxury car owners, they don't give a rat's butt about shifting manually...that's for the working class lol
08-10-08, 12:31 AM
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08-10-08, 04:34 AM
#8
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I think the reason is quite simple: there is no large market for a manual transmissioned IS350 in the US. The real enthusiasts who buy these cars make up a very small portion of the entire market and even then you have enthusiasts who love to drive and the feel of a good-handling car, yet desire an automatic instead of a manual transmission. The market is basically very saturated with different types of consumers and I suppose the Lexus IS market research team has determined that the best solution is to simply offer an automatic transmissioned IS350 which will appeal to the larger portion of the market.
I recall Mercedes offering the last C350 with a 6 speed manual transmission which sold poorly in the US (not sure about Europe). The current C350 doesn't even come with the manual transmission anymore, I believe. Looks like they learned their lesson and decided that the few customers they're going to alienate because of this are not going to matter.
I recall Mercedes offering the last C350 with a 6 speed manual transmission which sold poorly in the US (not sure about Europe). The current C350 doesn't even come with the manual transmission anymore, I believe. Looks like they learned their lesson and decided that the few customers they're going to alienate because of this are not going to matter.
08-10-08, 06:09 AM
#9
Out of Warranty
While I love the sporting character of a good manual transmission, many of the incentives it once offered are now gone, thanks to vastly improved technology on display in the current crop of automatics. Once a stick-shift offered superior performance and economy over similar cars equipped with automatics, but the difference today is pretty narrow. With manufacturing costs of the automatic coming down, there is little incentive for automakers to produce both manual and automatic automobiles.
A manual is quite adept at producing wheelspin, which has largely been engineered out of automatics. Shift algorithms have become smarter too, doing a somewhat better job of delivering the proper gear reduction for the application. Finally, the new generation of DCT's and other auto-manuals may make the clutch obsolete, relying on a computer to handle inputs from the paddle-shifters to properly match revs and perform throttle blips on the downshift - skills that may be a vanishing art in performance driving.
Finally, as bit indicated, in today's heavier traffic, commuting with a stick - particularly in a performance-oriented car with a relatively heavy clutch, is as pointless as it is painful. Manual transmissions are rapidly becoming an affectation, even among enthusiasts.
A manual is quite adept at producing wheelspin, which has largely been engineered out of automatics. Shift algorithms have become smarter too, doing a somewhat better job of delivering the proper gear reduction for the application. Finally, the new generation of DCT's and other auto-manuals may make the clutch obsolete, relying on a computer to handle inputs from the paddle-shifters to properly match revs and perform throttle blips on the downshift - skills that may be a vanishing art in performance driving.
Finally, as bit indicated, in today's heavier traffic, commuting with a stick - particularly in a performance-oriented car with a relatively heavy clutch, is as pointless as it is painful. Manual transmissions are rapidly becoming an affectation, even among enthusiasts.
08-10-08, 07:19 AM
#11
Pole Position
08-10-08, 07:55 AM
#13
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Where are they? The IS250 is the only one available from Lexus currently and I believe that the original ES250 had one. So what gives?
Do people not want them? Am I the only one? I know that back in the 80s most of the BMWs sold were manuals. Today, much fewer are manuals, but you can still get every variant of the gasoline 3 and 5 series in MT and even the X3 can be had with one.
Do people not want them? Am I the only one? I know that back in the 80s most of the BMWs sold were manuals. Today, much fewer are manuals, but you can still get every variant of the gasoline 3 and 5 series in MT and even the X3 can be had with one.
08-10-08, 08:03 AM
#14
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But with that said, Mazda's new lightweight 6 speed auto with paddle shifters for the Miata is VERY popular and highly praised.But bigger cars, it just no longer makes sense to me, especially with awesome alternatives like DSG/PDK available.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 08-10-08 at 08:06 AM.
08-10-08, 08:11 AM
#15
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Haven't checked recently, but even 5 years ago, before I got my G35 coupe, I was also looking at BMW, & the salesman told me that less than 20% of the 3-series they sold have manual transmissions, & they don't even stock them, you most likely have to factory order if you want a manual.
So while automatics have made strides, I think there is reason for a new appeal of manuals. For one thing, clutches are lasting longer. But another big change is hill holder system. My mom used to be terrified of driving stick even though that what she learned on. She hated the idea of rolling back on hills. Now that my pop's BMW and my Subaru have these hill holder functions you don't roll back as much. She has talked about getting a TT and not an automatic one. So perhaps this is just one person, but still interesting.