Cadillac rumored to be euthanizing STS and DTS
08-13-08, 05:17 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
No, you arent alone. As a young person, I grew up in the 60's muscle-car era, and, like most teen-agers, liked sporty and muscle cars. Unlike most teens, however, I also liked cushy luxury cars. There's a place for firm sporty rides, and there's a place for cushy luxury rides. Unfortunately, today's auto industry has all but forgotten the latter.
08-13-08, 05:47 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...&highlight=dts
I've always liked the DTS and STS actually.
Caddy is clearly going sport and edgy and like BMW and now Acura, saying FU to their previous loyal buyers by trying to attract different ones.
Caddy like Lexus, still doesn't ring "sporty" when you think of it. I think Caddy, I still think cushy and Escalade, even with a great V-series line.
I've always liked the DTS and STS actually.
Caddy is clearly going sport and edgy and like BMW and now Acura, saying FU to their previous loyal buyers by trying to attract different ones.
Caddy like Lexus, still doesn't ring "sporty" when you think of it. I think Caddy, I still think cushy and Escalade, even with a great V-series line.
08-21-08, 06:00 PM
#19
G35x - RWD/AWD goodness
IL Insider: Cadillac Shelves the Twelve
The experimental 750-hp 7.5-liter Northstar-based V12 from the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept. The engine featured direct injection and displacement on demand.
DETROIT — Cadillac has quietly stalled its plans to build a 12-cylinder flagship sedan and continues to wrestle with details and timing on a proposed rear-wheel-drive replacement for the STS and DTS sedans.
Inside Line has learned that the XLS sedan and its V12 engine, neither of which was ever officially approved for production, have been put on the shelf while Cadillac planners focus on developing a single high-end model to replace both the front-wheel-drive DTS and rear-wheel-drive STS.
The new sedan is known internally as DT7, using a new alphanumeric naming system that Cadillac is considering for its future production vehicles (the proposed baby Cadillac is known as AT1).
According to General Motors suppliers, the DT7 would be based on a premium version of the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that underpins the Pontiac G8 and Chevrolet Camaro, and had been scheduled to begin production in mid-2011 at GM's Lansing Grand River plant. Now its launch may slip until late 2011 or early 2012, they say.
Production of the current Cadillac DTS is slated to end in mid-2010, while the STS is to be phased out in late 2010, leaving a potential gap of a year or more before the new DT7 reaches the market.
A shortage of engineering and financial resources, and concerns about rising fuel prices, have prompted Cadillac planners to rethink much of the brand's future product arsenal, particularly at the upper end, as well as its proposed future powertrain lineup.
Cadillac last built 12-cylinder cars from 1930-'37. It displayed an experimental 750-horsepower 7.5-liter Northstar-based V12 in the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept. The engine featured direct injection and displacement on demand. Several years ago, it also tested a 7.2-liter V12 in the Escalade but canceled production plans.
What this means to you: For now, Cadillac has killed the V12 and expects to further de-emphasize the Northstar V8, while focusing much of its future powertrain development on V6 gasoline and diesel engines, including high-output variants of each for performance-oriented models. — Paul Lienert, Correspondent
Inside Line has learned that the XLS sedan and its V12 engine, neither of which was ever officially approved for production, have been put on the shelf while Cadillac planners focus on developing a single high-end model to replace both the front-wheel-drive DTS and rear-wheel-drive STS.
The new sedan is known internally as DT7, using a new alphanumeric naming system that Cadillac is considering for its future production vehicles (the proposed baby Cadillac is known as AT1).
According to General Motors suppliers, the DT7 would be based on a premium version of the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that underpins the Pontiac G8 and Chevrolet Camaro, and had been scheduled to begin production in mid-2011 at GM's Lansing Grand River plant. Now its launch may slip until late 2011 or early 2012, they say.
Production of the current Cadillac DTS is slated to end in mid-2010, while the STS is to be phased out in late 2010, leaving a potential gap of a year or more before the new DT7 reaches the market.
A shortage of engineering and financial resources, and concerns about rising fuel prices, have prompted Cadillac planners to rethink much of the brand's future product arsenal, particularly at the upper end, as well as its proposed future powertrain lineup.
Cadillac last built 12-cylinder cars from 1930-'37. It displayed an experimental 750-horsepower 7.5-liter Northstar-based V12 in the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept. The engine featured direct injection and displacement on demand. Several years ago, it also tested a 7.2-liter V12 in the Escalade but canceled production plans.
What this means to you: For now, Cadillac has killed the V12 and expects to further de-emphasize the Northstar V8, while focusing much of its future powertrain development on V6 gasoline and diesel engines, including high-output variants of each for performance-oriented models. — Paul Lienert, Correspondent
08-21-08, 06:24 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7,468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think there should be a big cushy caddy (it can be a seville-deville thing) which would compete w. the LS/S/7 & it should probably have a sizable back seat
i'll go on record rite here and say: i like cushy rides, i enjoyed one yesterday on the way home from my sergery. i also like cushy rides when i'm tired, worn out, or generally wanting to ignore the world around me. as my only car, maybe when i'm older but not rite now; however, i like that there is an STS in the garage when i do want a cushy ride
on another note, the lower end of the line seems to have a good plan (cts & bls)
i'll go on record rite here and say: i like cushy rides, i enjoyed one yesterday on the way home from my sergery. i also like cushy rides when i'm tired, worn out, or generally wanting to ignore the world around me. as my only car, maybe when i'm older but not rite now; however, i like that there is an STS in the garage when i do want a cushy ride
on another note, the lower end of the line seems to have a good plan (cts & bls)
08-21-08, 11:31 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
Actually both DeVille and Fleetwood were FWD cars since the mid-1980s, when Cadillac substantially downsized them from the older body, which was RWD and continued to be in production under the name "Brougham" until 1992'.
I was (and to an extent still am) a huge Cadillac fan since my parents bought a new DeVille in 1990'. It now has 58k miles on its odometer and it's still with us. In terms of softness, its comfortable bench seat simply blows away anything that I've ever sat in before, including Mercedes CL/S classes and the LS430.
SeVille, on the other hand, was designed to compete with the likes of the Mercedes Benz E-class and BMW 5 series cars. Compare to DeVille, SeVille has always been a sportier model.
I don't think Cadillac did the right thing by replacing the names DeVille with DTS and SeVille with STS. Short alphabetical designations may suit certain newer cars better but definitely not on cars with heritage. That's why you'll never see a Mustang GT being named MGT or a Corolla LE being named a CLE.
Jon
I was (and to an extent still am) a huge Cadillac fan since my parents bought a new DeVille in 1990'. It now has 58k miles on its odometer and it's still with us. In terms of softness, its comfortable bench seat simply blows away anything that I've ever sat in before, including Mercedes CL/S classes and the LS430.
SeVille, on the other hand, was designed to compete with the likes of the Mercedes Benz E-class and BMW 5 series cars. Compare to DeVille, SeVille has always been a sportier model.
I don't think Cadillac did the right thing by replacing the names DeVille with DTS and SeVille with STS. Short alphabetical designations may suit certain newer cars better but definitely not on cars with heritage. That's why you'll never see a Mustang GT being named MGT or a Corolla LE being named a CLE.
Jon
08-22-08, 05:49 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
No. The DeVille, like some other large GM RWD cars, was downsized in 1985-86 and given FWD (That new design, IMO, was a piece of junk...they fell apart faster than a house of cards.). But the RWD Fleetwood, along with the Chevy Caprice (and later Buick Roadmaster) continued as RWD, on the large, V8, full-frame platform, along with the Caprice and Buick Estate wagons. The RWD Caprice/Roadmaster/Fleetwood trio was dropped altogether in late 1996 when GM management decided that the exploding truck and SUV demand made better use of the Arlington, TX plant than production of big cars. I strong felt than....and still do......that that decision was a mistake. GM, by doing so, gave up a good chunk of the police and taxi market, as well as those customers who liked large V8 RWD cars. These customers, naturally, gravitated to the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car trio. And now Lincoln has compounded the problem even further, by all but dropping the Town Car.
Ford and Mercury may soon follow...........and then the large, full-frame, RWD V8 American car may soon be extinct.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-22-08 at 05:53 AM.
08-22-08, 08:24 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
mmarshall,
Please believe me. I have all Cadillac brochures here with me for the past 20 years. Fleetwood was a FWD model, just like the DeVille since the mid-1980s. As a matter of fact, from the mid 80s until 1988, both DeVille and Fleetwood looked so identical that other than the badges and the seat trims, it's almost impossible to tell one from another. From 1989' to 1992' models, Fleetwood is distinguished by the extra rear wheel fenders, more upscale leather seats, rear vanity interior mirrors, rear passenger reading lights, different exterior badges, and slightly different genuine American walnut interior trims. All Fleetwood FWD models came with digital instrument cluster, which was an option for DeVille.
Also, the FWD Fleetwood had a special model called the "Fleetwood Sixty Special". It had super soft leather seats and a few extra toys. It's a very limited production package and even today, I have yet to see one on the road.
Cadillac did a confusing move when it dropped the name Brougham and replaced it with Fleetwood in 1993. The new design in 1993'-1996' is the Fleetwood you were making reference to.
Interestingly, the FWD Fleetwood body was also produced in 1993' (its last year). However, given the fact that Cadillac had already named the new Caprice/Roadmaster based car as Fleetwood, the last (1993') FWD model Fleetwood was simply named the "Sixty Special", NOT to be confused with the once ultra luxurious Fleetwood Sixty Special.
Jon
Please believe me. I have all Cadillac brochures here with me for the past 20 years. Fleetwood was a FWD model, just like the DeVille since the mid-1980s. As a matter of fact, from the mid 80s until 1988, both DeVille and Fleetwood looked so identical that other than the badges and the seat trims, it's almost impossible to tell one from another. From 1989' to 1992' models, Fleetwood is distinguished by the extra rear wheel fenders, more upscale leather seats, rear vanity interior mirrors, rear passenger reading lights, different exterior badges, and slightly different genuine American walnut interior trims. All Fleetwood FWD models came with digital instrument cluster, which was an option for DeVille.
Also, the FWD Fleetwood had a special model called the "Fleetwood Sixty Special". It had super soft leather seats and a few extra toys. It's a very limited production package and even today, I have yet to see one on the road.
Cadillac did a confusing move when it dropped the name Brougham and replaced it with Fleetwood in 1993. The new design in 1993'-1996' is the Fleetwood you were making reference to.
Interestingly, the FWD Fleetwood body was also produced in 1993' (its last year). However, given the fact that Cadillac had already named the new Caprice/Roadmaster based car as Fleetwood, the last (1993') FWD model Fleetwood was simply named the "Sixty Special", NOT to be confused with the once ultra luxurious Fleetwood Sixty Special.
Jon
No. The DeVille, like some other large GM RWD cars, was downsized in 1985-86 and given FWD (That new design, IMO, was a piece of junk...they fell apart faster than a house of cards.). But the RWD Fleetwood, along with the Chevy Caprice (and later Buick Roadmaster) continued as RWD, on the large, V8, full-frame platform, along with the Caprice and Buick Estate wagons. The RWD Caprice/Roadmaster/Fleetwood trio was dropped altogether in late 1996 when GM management decided that the exploding truck and SUV demand made better use of the Arlington, TX plant than production of big cars. I strong felt than....and still do......that that decision was a mistake. GM, by doing so, gave up a good chunk of the police and taxi market, as well as those customers who liked large V8 RWD cars. These customers, naturally, gravitated to the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car trio. And now Lincoln has compounded the problem even further, by all but dropping the Town Car. Ford and Mercury may soon follow...........and then the large, full-frame, RWD V8 American car may soon be extinct.
Ford and Mercury may soon follow...........and then the large, full-frame, RWD V8 American car may soon be extinct.Last edited by Baby ///M3; 08-22-08 at 08:34 AM.
08-22-08, 01:01 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Anyhow, we're both correct in our summations....it just seems to be a name game that Cadillac played But my original point was for Caddy bring back the big, RWD, V8, full-frame model, regardless of its name, for the people who liked that car and appreciated its comfort, ride, and towing capacaties. In that call, I'm not alone.......several posters right here seem to agree with that.
BTW, save those brochures.........they may come in handy at old-car shows in the future, or maybe you will be able to let them go for some $$$$$.
08-22-08, 01:34 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
I don't forsee the baby boomer generation wanting big floaty bench seat FWD giant trunk Caddys when they get older. The reason the current generation of older senior citizens likes these cars is that this was the way the nicest and most sought after cars drove back in their younger years. Not quite so much the case with the baby boomers. While I'm sure some baby boomers will want floaty cars to drive when they're older, I don't think it'll at all be the stereotype or norm anymore. At least none of the people I know from that gen seem to show any interest in that sort of car.
Caddy has some stunners out right now with the CTS and it looks like the new SRX but the STS and especially the DTS were past their time.
Lincoln is also done with the town car. That's really a sign of the times as that car must have been about 50% profit for Ford on each sale.
Caddy has some stunners out right now with the CTS and it looks like the new SRX but the STS and especially the DTS were past their time.
Lincoln is also done with the town car. That's really a sign of the times as that car must have been about 50% profit for Ford on each sale.
08-22-08, 01:54 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
I don't forsee the baby boomer generation wanting big floaty bench seat FWD giant trunk Caddys when they get older. The reason the current generation of older senior citizens likes these cars is that this was the way the nicest and most sought after cars drove back in their younger years. Not quite so much the case with the baby boomers. While I'm sure some baby boomers will want floaty cars to drive when they're older, I don't think it'll at all be the stereotype or norm anymore. At least none of the people I know from that gen seem to show any interest in that sort of car.
Lincoln is also done with the town car. That's really a sign of the times as that car must have been about 50% profit for Ford on each sale.
08-22-08, 02:17 PM
#28
Lexus Champion
I don't forsee the baby boomer generation wanting big floaty bench seat FWD giant trunk Caddys when they get older. The reason the current generation of older senior citizens likes these cars is that this was the way the nicest and most sought after cars drove back in their younger years. Not quite so much the case with the baby boomers. While I'm sure some baby boomers will want floaty cars to drive when they're older, I don't think it'll at all be the stereotype or norm anymore. At least none of the people I know from that gen seem to show any interest in that sort of car.
Caddy has some stunners out right now with the CTS and it looks like the new SRX but the STS and especially the DTS were past their time.
Lincoln is also done with the town car. That's really a sign of the times as that car must have been about 50% profit for Ford on each sale.
Caddy has some stunners out right now with the CTS and it looks like the new SRX but the STS and especially the DTS were past their time.
Lincoln is also done with the town car. That's really a sign of the times as that car must have been about 50% profit for Ford on each sale.
08-22-08, 02:24 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
The people who want these cars, for reasons I have already explained, have NOT changed their tastes, yet they are being ignored in the marketplace....a foolish move, IMO.
And if GM and Ford are doing such good marketing by dumping traditional luxury-car designs and substituting sport-sedan designs for them instead, then why are they in such a corporate mess financially, and sales have fallen so much? To some extent, they have bit the hands that fed them. A lot of people (or at least a significant number), not to mention limo firms, still want Town Cars, DeVilles, and Fleetwoods, and Ford and GM just isn't providing them anymore. You are not going to satisfy these people with BMW wanna-bes........that just isn't going to work.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-22-08 at 02:28 PM.
08-22-08, 02:48 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
I have to agree that some of the sutomakers have made some questionable moves over the years. But why on earth would BOTH GM and Ford be pulling these big sedans off of the market? It's due to falling sales and the fact that the average age of the buyers wasn't getting any younger. Which means future sales of these cars just won't be there, and they want to appeal to a younger buyer, in the hopes (right or wrong) of selling them more cars in the years to come. Unfortunately it's that way in a lot of businesses, not just cars.