RON430

At least here in NoCal, diesel is once again cheaper than regular on my informal survey. For a while, it was probably 10% higher than premium which put it over $5 a gallon but now it is around 2% cheaper than regular, as of today. While gas here may have fallen 10% or so recently, my quick guess would be that diesel has dropped more like 20%. Cali is still expensive but the insanity of diesel pricing has broken more than the gasoline prices. We are seeing the strength of the dollar and the traditional annual high for gasoline and I don't think it makes much sense to try and predict gas/diesel prices but if diesel stays under regular, it will definitely be an inducement to the euros to get the high tech diesels here.

For you dieselphobes, I am not sure we need to hear, yet again, how you will never buy a diesel. We get it, don't waste the bandwidth. For us who at least want the option, the fall in diesel prices makes the economics a whole lot more attractive now than sixty days ago.

spwolf

unfortunatly, i doubt it will hold... here in europe, price of low sulphur diesel has been growing and now it is 10% more than gasoline where it was cheaper 10% 2-3 years ago. A lot of people purchased diesels because of the cheaper gas, and it definetly messed up their economics, especially with the smaller cars where mpg gain is not as noticable.

i already see people shifting their purchasing to petrol cars for lower classes (Corolla and below)...

pbm317

Strange.. diesel is still pricey in Seattle, and hasn't dropped as much as gas has. Before Diesel was 4.99 i think now it's 4.89.

Regular has dipped to about 3.95 in the city, and it was much higher before.

RON430

As a past diesel owner, I can say that diesel has trended more to be less than gasoline than vice versa. The effect this summer was really strange. Right now, regular unleaded around here is in the 4.15 range and diesel is now under 4.10. I am not going to bother making long term predictions as there are so many factors going on in pricing that to me, it proves how little you know if you try to get the ouija board out and convince anyone you know what you are talking about. Europe may or may not have a trend that repeats here in the US. Diesel is much more widespread there than here and the supply/demand issues are considerably different.

But the high tech diesels were looking like a non starter here until the last few days. I can't say that I know what happened or when because I was so used to seeing diesel at the top of the price chart, I quit looking. Then about three days ago, one of the stations I pass had diesel priced between regular and midgrade. I thought it was a mistake. Watched a few more stations, and it is what everybody had. Then, over the last two days, diesel has slowly kept dropping and is now at the bottom of the price chart.

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, I am diesel neutral. I have driven the new diesels on a recent trip to Europe and they beat the living daylights out of what I owned years ago and I would definitely consider buying one. The economics got very unfavorable for them about sixty days ago but if diesel goes back to under regular, it makes them very attractive IMO.

There are some arguments to be made about the ULSD fuel refining costs but the low sulfur is made more in the oil than in the refining and generally diesel is acknowledged to be a lower distillate than gasoline with slightly reduced refining costs. That may not make a hill of beans difference in price, as was demonstrated this summer in the US, but if diesel stays even just competitive with regular, it makes diesel economics a lot better. I like choice.

I can't say that I saw the non hybrid crowd doing much but then Audi has started to let the word out on the powerplants in the upcoming A6 range and with a claimed 15% improvement in mileage, the gasoline engine certainly isn't dead. Sounds like the diesel price trend may have hit Cali earlier than other places (and that's hard to believe) but if it stays this way, the europeans may look more kindly at trying the diesels out here. Like I said, for me, choice is good.

ST430

Where in NoCal are you? In Silicon Valley (South Bay Area), it's still about a $.10 higher than premium fuel.

RON430

I am in silicon valley. Chevron and Rotten Robbie are both cheaper than regular today when I went to lunch around the SJ/Milpitas border. And the Chevron station I passed (Montague and 880) has been one of the highest around.

I just wanted to clarify that I pass another station that does not appear to have any affiliation and that their diesel price is still the range topper but when I have three other stations where diesel is less than regular, not to mention darned near $1 gallon cheaper than that station, then I figure they have a bunch of old price diesel that they want to unload before they lower the price. There are two other stations I can check but from what I see, it isn't hard to get diesel for less than regular in the south bay now.

ST430

Guess it has actually dropped...on the way home to Evergreen area of San Jose, saw a few diesel prices around $.05 cheaper then Premium. While that is an improvement, I would love to see it like before (being cheaper than regular), but I'm sure the refineries are finally recouping the costs of moving to clean diesel and hence getting cheaper....

RON430

The no name station I referred to is on White near Alum Rock. The Rotten Robbie down the street is considerably less for diesel. The Chevron at 880 and Montague has diesel on the bottom of the chart, about 0.08 cheaper than regular.

ST430

Wow, that is cheap! This should significantly help with inflation (since our whole transportation system relies on diesel big rigs). I'm actually curious as you to see when diesels will start proliferating here as Honduh, MB, and BMW have all announced engine tech...now where are the models?!

RON430

Between you and I, I think the european auto mfrs are a little skeptical of Americans appetite for diesels. I think they will go slow and probably roll them out first in econo models (think 1 or 3 series, C class, A3 - A4). As well as the smaller SUVs. That's a problem for me as I want to see them in the larger sedans. I had a chance to spend a fair amount of time in an A8 with what I think was around a 4 l diesel. That thing was a hoot and got very respectable mileage. My fear is that as gas prices fall, SUVs will start selling again and a lot of the plans for higher mileage cars will be shelved until the gas price heads back up.

This mornings survey showed a couple of interesting results. Regular seems to have dropped again over night. Lowest I saw on my commute route was 4.03. Diesel ran from 4.09 to 4.45, but most places seem to have diesel for between regular and midgrade now. If this is just Cali, I cannot figure out why but diesel has still fallen more than gasoline on a percentage basis.

I really hope that this gets the Europeans to get those high tech diesels here soon. I may or may not buy one but I am no dieselphobe. The available of the higher mileage versions will just help keep the premiums down on diesel (which is not much if anything) and hybrid. I have a fear that at least the US makers are going to be making Kia Spectra sized cars but wanting premium pricing for the mileage. Please, don't anyone post about how good the Spectra is or refer me to a review, I am making a point that at least the US automakers seem to be getting ready to make the argument that you should be willing to pay a premium for higher mileage in a tiny car instead of making American sized vehicles with good mileage. But, just like solar energy used to get trapped in, the price of oil whipsaws industries all over the place. Just like idiots were projecting $200 oil a couple of months ago (it will happen, just not this week) now they are falling all over themselves to predict how low it will drop for the upcoming decades. What a pity we don't have any adult supervision in the energy biz in the US.

PS, That Chevron is one of the highest priced stations around this location because it has a grind-your-finish-car-wash and is right next to the freeway but I pass it going to lunch. I'll check it again today but I had to look several times to convince myself that diesel was cheaper than regular, at least yesterday at that staion.

whlkev

your speculation is correct

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

RON430

Thanks very much for the link. I look pretty warmly on diesels if they are done right but the ridiculous price for diesel sixty days ago just had me rethink the whole thing. There is nothing the slightest bit scientific or comprehensive about what I did. I had given up looking at diesel price, it was pretty much over $5/gal here for several months. Then it caught my eye a couple of days ago and I couldn't believe it. So I started watching the stations I passed and there is a big variation but it has really fallen. Whether it means anything to anyone here, I'll bet the truckers have found at least a tiny bright spot in the movement.

spwolf

diesels make most sense in large cars, not small ones.

Cost of diesel engine, over similar gas engine is between 2k and 4k, depending on the tech. When you are buying small car, thats a lot of money.

In Europe, diesels own SUV market, and large car market, smaller you go, less people buy the diesels.

In fact, most of companies in Europe are subsidizing the cost of diesel engines to be competitive on the market, and they still cost 15% more than gas versions of the same car.

mmarshall

I look at it from the other side of the coin, though.........Americans can't buy or lease what ISN'T offered here. If the Euro companies want to sell diesels here, they have to SEND them here first.



As far as the car wash is concerned, keep passing it and wash your car yourself.
Every car wash likes to claim that it doesn't damage paint, trim, or glass, but, in most cases, that's bulls**t.......they DO, whether they admit it or not. I won't let anyone wash my car....I always do it myself.

link13

Cost per mile is typically less for diesels even if the $ per gallon is more because they usually get better MPG. If there were diesel car alternatives, I would seriously look at them. I have been driving a 1GS with no engine mods for 6 years, so that should tell you I don't need to be quick or fast.