speedflex

I think it's important to remember that once upon a time Lexus was born and came out with a car called the LS400 which was an audacious challenge to the European luxury status quo. Believe me, there was as much indignation and ridicule over that car from non believers as there are here who think Hyundai is being unrealistic daring to compete with Lexus.

Now, Hyundai is not Toyota and the Genesis is no Lexus but this kind of move is exactly how Lexus got its start.

pagemaster

Neither the Avalon or 4.6 genesis are under 6. Both are around 6.3-6.5

carguy101

Genesis 0-60: 5.6s (C&D)

carguy101

Let's not forget also, Genesis was tested with regular fuel, while GS was tested with premium fuel.

pagemaster

At that time things were different. The gap between mainstream brands such as Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc and Lexus, Mercedes, BMW were very very wide.

You don't need to spend $50k for luxury, serious performance, amentities, build quality etc.

Today mainstream cars are better than ever before. The consumer is so well aware of what is out there, consumers can shop online...there are a lot of solid alternatives to a Lexus, BMW, Mercedes that were not available back when the LS400 was introduced.

pagemaster

My mistake. The 4.6 is under 6sec in most tests.

speedflex

True, but it's all relative. 20 years ago about the only amenities which weren't available on mainstream cars were real wood and good stereo. The main thing that set a luxury car apart from the mainstream was the prestige, the dealer treatment and the driving experience. Pretty much the same today.

One area where the the gap has closed is in ride and handling. Back then no one but Europe seemed to know how to do a responsive, satisfying to drive car. Now everyone has figured it out to varying degrees.

pagemaster

Disagree. At one time things like memory seats, projector beam headlamps, wood steering wheels, digital climate control, dual climate control, side head and curtain, power steering wheels, heated seats, climate seats, electrolum gauges, etc were all exclusive to lexus and higher end brands.

Now these features can be found on almost all brands somewhere in their line ups.

Sequioas now have power telescoping steering
Tundra have memory seats
Corollas have push button start
Avalons have HID lamps.
Land Cruiser have 4 zone climate


My point is that Lexus is having a hard time selling their cars of late because they are too expensive while you get similar features and equipement with other brands.

speedflex

You're right about that. But I was talking about 1990 when Lexus first came out. Many of the features you note weren't even in luxury cars at the time.

And There were some exceptions of mainstream cars bordering on near luxury in the early 90's. The Nissan Maxima for one. You could deck a Maxima out so that it was very closely equipped to the level of a BMW of the time.

But let's not go too far off topic I guess. This is about the GS and Genesis. We could start another thread about the advance of mainstream cars vs. luxury cars. It would be cool to get other's points of view too.

LexBob2

Hyundai says they expect 80% of Genesis sales to be V6's. I agree that it's more of an apples to apples comparison to compare V6's (ES, Avalon, TL, Lucerne, Maxima, G) etc. with the Genesis V6 - And their V8 to other V8's. Better way to compare performance and fuel efficiency.

BTW, does anyone know if the Genesis 4.6 V8 has any special badging that indicates the V8 is on board? I looked at two V6's at a dealer and don't recall seeing any indication of what engine they had.

GStateOM

I think the Genisis is a competition for the ES/Avalon/300c/G8 crowd. With the growth of the next gen TL, add it to the list as well. We may look at that and say well its RWD and the other cars are FWD but does the average consumer care? These cars will be cross shopped more with the Genesis than the GS IMO (not to say that it won't be with a GS).

The average consumer will look at his price range and other cars within that range. He/She isn't going to look at whether that car is RWD or FWD (especially in warm weather climates), they're going to look at the cars around that price range.

To say that it competes with the GS, you would have to drag in the other cars in as well. It's like saying the STi and EVO shouldn't compete with the 135i because its AWD vs RWD. The Genesis offers good value for the money and although people who know about cars may want to compare the cars, I just think that people actually looking for the cars are less likely to compare these 2 cars and instead, compare the Genesis with lower end luxury FWD japanese and large RWD non luxury branded american cars.

I think the Genesis V8 would have won by an even larger magin than the GS460. The GS460 (no offense to GS460 owners) is IMO nothing more than a half hearted attempt to upgrade the GS V8. It doesn't offer that much more than the car it replaced, which was already falling behind the competition. Might as well have just kept the old 430, looking at the meager performance gains. SC'ing the old 430 motor would have made it more competitive if engine fitment was that much of an issue.

dunnojack

i buy a lexus because i have the money.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

On the flip side, some people with tons of $ drive many extra miles to save 2c a gallon on gas.

dunnojack

leather covered dash does not make a car a luxury car.

they also wouldn't use fancy leather to cover the dash.

Threxx

It's the whole package that makes a lux car unless you're that stuck on a badge that you think the badge automatically makes or breaks lux car status.

The Genesis is a true lux car without the badge. Drive one and see... it's not just an Accent with leather on the dash.

The badge really doesn't matter to me and some other people. If you went and bought an LS430 in Japan it'd have a Toyota badge on it... did that badge make any difference in how much of a lux car it was or wasn't? Not to me.