Is Your Gas Pump Ripping You Off?
08-25-08, 07:39 AM
#1
Is Your Gas Pump Ripping You Off?
Is Your Gas Pump Ripping You Off?
(Aug. 22) This CBS News investigation started with a simple question: When you fill up, are you getting every drop of gas you pay for?
It's up to each state to make sure you're not getting ripped off at the pump. To see if you are, CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian and the investigative team turned to three reporters at CBS stations to see what they could find.
Mark Greenblatt of KHOU in Houston reports that for the first time ever, the state of Texas is suing a company that runs a chain of gas stations - accusing it of deliberately shorting consumers. The company denies any wrongdoing, but they are not alone. Last year the state found nearly 2,000 pumps at other gas stations that were cheating drivers.
The industry says about 90 percent of pumps pass inspection, and some even deliver a bit more than you pay for.
But a two-month CBS News investigation raises serious questions about whether states even know if drivers are being cheated. CBS News uncovered huge gaps in how pumps are inspected nationwide, including:
• Inspection standards that vary wildly from state to state.
• A surprising lack of inspectors - only 600 or so nationwide.
As Frank Vascellaro from WCCO-TV in Minneapolis reports, Minnesota doesn't inspect gas pumps annually. There aren't enough inspectors to do it. Of the pumps they were able to inspect this year, 11 percent had problems.
The state says stations have to fix them, but only a quarter are ever reinspected. And even though the state can charge operators ripping you off with a crime, that's never happened in Minnesota.
Overall, the investigation uncovered a pattern of inspection that was, literally, all over the map.
Michigan, for example, inspects only after complaints. New Hampshire and Arkansas allow gas stations to hire their own testers, while Tennessee and Florida rely on "statistical sampling."
"Some states are doing very well, others are struggling," said Henry Oppermann, the former head of the Department of Commerce division that sets guidelines for state inspections. "When the inspection period would get beyond, let's say, a year and a half, I think that's really going beyond what regulatory oversight should be."
In fact, CBS News found 17 states allow pumps to go more than a year and a half without inspection.
Among the worst: Arizona, at every three years. Maine's inspections are up to every four years. Same with Texas. One pump CBS News found in Fort Worth, Texas, was last inspected in 2003, when gas was $1.56 a gallon.
Speaking with Oppermann, Keteyian said: "I gotta tell you something, I don't have a great deal of confidence right now ... that I am actually getting what I am paying for."
"When there's a lack of oversight, there's a potential - a greater potential for abuse," Oppermann said.
And even when pumps are regularly inspected, that's no guarantee.
Anna Werner at KPIX in San Francisco found that in California, 94 percent of pumps pass inspection. But consumers can still be cheated. That's because pumps can pass even when they dispense a little less than what the pump says. It's a margin of error the law allows.
So a high-volume station that routinely sells a little less than a gallon could rake in around $50,000 a year extra - for gas you never get.
"Shame on them!" one driver said. "That's all I can say, shame on them."
Is it time for Congress to look at this as a national issue?
"It would be beneficial to have a national coordination of efforts," Oppermann said.
Not likely. When CBS News tried to find out the last time Congress looked into the problem, but came up empty. Fact is: it never has.
Copyright 2008, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
2008-08-22 11:13:12
(Aug. 22) This CBS News investigation started with a simple question: When you fill up, are you getting every drop of gas you pay for?
It's up to each state to make sure you're not getting ripped off at the pump. To see if you are, CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian and the investigative team turned to three reporters at CBS stations to see what they could find.
Mark Greenblatt of KHOU in Houston reports that for the first time ever, the state of Texas is suing a company that runs a chain of gas stations - accusing it of deliberately shorting consumers. The company denies any wrongdoing, but they are not alone. Last year the state found nearly 2,000 pumps at other gas stations that were cheating drivers.
The industry says about 90 percent of pumps pass inspection, and some even deliver a bit more than you pay for.
But a two-month CBS News investigation raises serious questions about whether states even know if drivers are being cheated. CBS News uncovered huge gaps in how pumps are inspected nationwide, including:
• Inspection standards that vary wildly from state to state.
• A surprising lack of inspectors - only 600 or so nationwide.
As Frank Vascellaro from WCCO-TV in Minneapolis reports, Minnesota doesn't inspect gas pumps annually. There aren't enough inspectors to do it. Of the pumps they were able to inspect this year, 11 percent had problems.
The state says stations have to fix them, but only a quarter are ever reinspected. And even though the state can charge operators ripping you off with a crime, that's never happened in Minnesota.
Overall, the investigation uncovered a pattern of inspection that was, literally, all over the map.
Michigan, for example, inspects only after complaints. New Hampshire and Arkansas allow gas stations to hire their own testers, while Tennessee and Florida rely on "statistical sampling."
"Some states are doing very well, others are struggling," said Henry Oppermann, the former head of the Department of Commerce division that sets guidelines for state inspections. "When the inspection period would get beyond, let's say, a year and a half, I think that's really going beyond what regulatory oversight should be."
In fact, CBS News found 17 states allow pumps to go more than a year and a half without inspection.
Among the worst: Arizona, at every three years. Maine's inspections are up to every four years. Same with Texas. One pump CBS News found in Fort Worth, Texas, was last inspected in 2003, when gas was $1.56 a gallon.
Speaking with Oppermann, Keteyian said: "I gotta tell you something, I don't have a great deal of confidence right now ... that I am actually getting what I am paying for."
"When there's a lack of oversight, there's a potential - a greater potential for abuse," Oppermann said.
And even when pumps are regularly inspected, that's no guarantee.
Anna Werner at KPIX in San Francisco found that in California, 94 percent of pumps pass inspection. But consumers can still be cheated. That's because pumps can pass even when they dispense a little less than what the pump says. It's a margin of error the law allows.
So a high-volume station that routinely sells a little less than a gallon could rake in around $50,000 a year extra - for gas you never get.
"Shame on them!" one driver said. "That's all I can say, shame on them."
Is it time for Congress to look at this as a national issue?
"It would be beneficial to have a national coordination of efforts," Oppermann said.
Not likely. When CBS News tried to find out the last time Congress looked into the problem, but came up empty. Fact is: it never has.
Copyright 2008, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
2008-08-22 11:13:12
08-25-08, 08:11 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Er, so where's the data, like how much people are being ripped off? The only data point I see is "a high-volume station that routinely sells a little less than a gallon could rake in around $50,000 a year extra" but that might mean people are getting 0.0001% less of a gallon, since the volumes are huge, I don't know, and that may be in the margin of error, and not a deliberate ripoff.
I'm sure there's a few rotten apples out there but the article seems to be more about a lack of inspections than actual problems.
Article fail.
I'm sure there's a few rotten apples out there but the article seems to be more about a lack of inspections than actual problems.
Article fail.
08-25-08, 08:27 AM
#3
Er, so where's the data, like how much people are being ripped off? The only data point I see is "a high-volume station that routinely sells a little less than a gallon could rake in around $50,000 a year extra" but that might mean people are getting 0.0001% less of a gallon, since the volumes are huge, I don't know, and that may be in the margin of error, and not a deliberate ripoff.
I'm sure there's a few rotten apples out there but the article seems to be more about a lack of inspections than actual problems.
Article fail.
I'm sure there's a few rotten apples out there but the article seems to be more about a lack of inspections than actual problems.
Article fail.
08-25-08, 08:48 AM
#4
Out of Warranty
TV stations all over the country are conducting their own witch hunts as we ramp up to the fall sweeps. Practically every local news outlet is running as some top story their own "investigative report" of gas stations ripping off the public. But let's look at a few facts: First, most states require metering accuracy within a small fraction of a percent and are checked by horribly understaffed state departments of weights and measures - the same guys who check your butcher's scales.
Wear on the meter vanes will slowly allow the meter to UNDERmeasure the quantity of fuel delivered, so there is a good incentive for the station owner to maintain his pumps. There is an adjustment on the meter that can compensate for some small amount of wear before the meter has to be removed and repaired, and it is possible to crank the adjustment to OVERmeasure fuel delivery and make an illegal profit for the station. Considering the liability for fines, especially where intentional tampering is evident, it's not a good idea, and station owners who practice it are running a serious risk. Company owned or brand-franchise stations are relatively safe from these abuses, although they can occur anywhere.
Here in my zipcode the last available stats come from 2004, at which time we had a good number of pumps cited for out of spec delivery. The vast majority of these were actually delivering MORE gas than was registered. Most reporting systems will tag out a pump for inaccuracy, no mater in whose favor the meter reads. Because most meters tend to overdeliver product as they wear, even the pumps that are working in the customer's favor get reported, making for sensational news stories that if investigated further might show it was the station owner who was being cheated.
If you listen to the tone of these "exposés", you would think you are being held up at gunpoint for $10 bucks or so, but in fact, most offenders only profit a penny or two on a tank of gas. If you want laboratory accuracy from a curbside, high volume pump, it's going to be pretty difficult to find.
But it does make for sensational news.
Wear on the meter vanes will slowly allow the meter to UNDERmeasure the quantity of fuel delivered, so there is a good incentive for the station owner to maintain his pumps. There is an adjustment on the meter that can compensate for some small amount of wear before the meter has to be removed and repaired, and it is possible to crank the adjustment to OVERmeasure fuel delivery and make an illegal profit for the station. Considering the liability for fines, especially where intentional tampering is evident, it's not a good idea, and station owners who practice it are running a serious risk. Company owned or brand-franchise stations are relatively safe from these abuses, although they can occur anywhere.
Here in my zipcode the last available stats come from 2004, at which time we had a good number of pumps cited for out of spec delivery. The vast majority of these were actually delivering MORE gas than was registered. Most reporting systems will tag out a pump for inaccuracy, no mater in whose favor the meter reads. Because most meters tend to overdeliver product as they wear, even the pumps that are working in the customer's favor get reported, making for sensational news stories that if investigated further might show it was the station owner who was being cheated.
If you listen to the tone of these "exposés", you would think you are being held up at gunpoint for $10 bucks or so, but in fact, most offenders only profit a penny or two on a tank of gas. If you want laboratory accuracy from a curbside, high volume pump, it's going to be pretty difficult to find.
But it does make for sensational news.
08-25-08, 08:57 AM
#5
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Even if i'm gettin .0001% less than what i'm payin for i'm still gonna be pissed! I work hard, just like all of you for my money. Still the lack of inspections on pumps is a big part of it but hey it needs to get done.
So what that means is over the years i've been cheated a total of 9.738 gallons! All i know is I want my DAMN gas!!!
So what that means is over the years i've been cheated a total of 9.738 gallons! All i know is I want my DAMN gas!!!
08-25-08, 07:43 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Let's look at that. If you're short changed ONE TEN THOUSANDTH of each gallon and a gallon is $4 that means you were "ripped off" just over HALF OF ONE PENNY on a refill of 15 gallons.
If you're pissed about that you may need to seek therapy.
08-25-08, 07:51 PM
#7
Lexus Champion
What are they calling a true 'rip off'?
I mean if a pump gives me 99% of what it says it gave me then it's not that bad so long as it's not like ALL the pumps are at 99%. If some are at 99% then I'd expect some to be at 101%.
As long as it's not way off (3% or more, I'd say) or consistently off to where all the pumps are 98-100% and none of them are over 100% then I'd say that's just how it goes.
Then again I know nothing about gas pumps... maybe they're easily capable of being very accurate?
I mean if a pump gives me 99% of what it says it gave me then it's not that bad so long as it's not like ALL the pumps are at 99%. If some are at 99% then I'd expect some to be at 101%.
As long as it's not way off (3% or more, I'd say) or consistently off to where all the pumps are 98-100% and none of them are over 100% then I'd say that's just how it goes.
Then again I know nothing about gas pumps... maybe they're easily capable of being very accurate?
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08-26-08, 03:39 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Gas also expands and contracts with temperature and pressure, sometimes affecting the exact amount that goes into your tank. That is something that pump inspections can't always take into account........it is basically nature-controlled.
But I agree with bitkahuna.......the difference is so small that those who really get that concerned about it are probably shrink material.
But I agree with bitkahuna.......the difference is so small that those who really get that concerned about it are probably shrink material.
08-26-08, 05:55 AM
#10
actually, it's a bit bigger than u think it is. my cousin runs a station by the holland tunnel and he knows the gulf station fails inspections for giving less gas.
on average, they save 2 gallons per fill up. imagine if y'all drove suv's there. they save much more =)
enjoy feeding their kids ^_~
on average, they save 2 gallons per fill up. imagine if y'all drove suv's there. they save much more =)
enjoy feeding their kids ^_~
08-26-08, 07:43 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
If they don't (and the inspection process itself is not flawed), then the pumps can legally be shut down.
08-26-08, 08:30 AM
#12
Out of Warranty
I imagine the Pressure-Volume-Temperature relationships do not effect the measurement of the liquid phase of the gas. In the storage tank or in the car, there may be some small differences as gasoline enters and leaves the vapor phase, but the fuel is measured as a liquid only, minimizing the effects of PVT.
Because most storage tanks are buried several feet down in the ground, the fuel they contain doesn't vary widely in temperature day to night.
(I think this is the first time I've thought about the Combined Gas Law since college. I think I hurt myself.)
Because most storage tanks are buried several feet down in the ground, the fuel they contain doesn't vary widely in temperature day to night.
(I think this is the first time I've thought about the Combined Gas Law since college. I think I hurt myself.)
Last edited by Lil4X; 08-26-08 at 08:33 AM.
08-26-08, 10:33 AM
#13
they can be. but not all do. that's kinda the point of this article.
08-26-08, 05:38 PM
#14
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I imagine the Pressure-Volume-Temperature relationships do not effect the measurement of the liquid phase of the gas. In the storage tank or in the car, there may be some small differences as gasoline enters and leaves the vapor phase, but the fuel is measured as a liquid only, minimizing the effects of PVT.
Because most storage tanks are buried several feet down in the ground, the fuel they contain doesn't vary widely in temperature day to night.
(I think this is the first time I've thought about the Combined Gas Law since college. I think I hurt myself.)
Because most storage tanks are buried several feet down in the ground, the fuel they contain doesn't vary widely in temperature day to night.
(I think this is the first time I've thought about the Combined Gas Law since college. I think I hurt myself.)
Aircraft without modern instrumentation have tables for calculating the weight of the fuel based on the volume and temperature. The crew chiefs for our 135 had to do this every time we refueled. It was always really interesting at Eielson AFB, AK in the winter when it was -45F or colder because the volume was small but the weight was high.
The thing that bothered me when I checked into California's laws regarding gasoline sales, is they only measure a single volume. So as long as they get 5 gallons when the pump says 5 gallons, it's all good. Those of us who have worked with precision measurements know a single point does not make a trend, and assuming everything is fine because the pump showed 5 gallons at the 5 gallon mark doesn't mean you have 7.5 gallons when it shows 7.5 gallons. Any decent test includes a number of points to measure precision AND accuracy (yes, they are different) across a range of measurements. According to the article, the inspectors have a rough enough job just using the cheesy method they use now. Imagine how many fewer would be tested if they had to test for linearity and repeatability!
08-26-08, 07:22 PM
#15
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Well where I am in NJ ?is super unleaded really super we had station putting regular in for super Better yet a number of stations pumped Diesel into the car for gas (I guess they could not smell the difference) but then the media changed it to oh it was water not diesel. I asked my station owner what the truth was he said it was diesel the stations that did this got away with it but they paid to fix the cars.