Genesis 4.6 vs GS460 vs 300c vs E550
08-25-08, 01:29 PM
#16
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The point is well taken on Lexus pricing but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Lexus to drop prices. They are still under the europeans and in recent years my take is they are trying to close that gap, not increase it
Example.....You could spend 53k on a GS460 and less hp, less MPG, less interior features, less performance, less braking or you spend $45 on a 4.6 Genesis and get a lot more....
08-25-08, 01:32 PM
#18
Absolutely not. All cars tested were RWD, V8, sedans. There was no complaining about fwd vs rwd etc. A very fair test.
I think that by winning the comparo it tells you that Lexus needs to bring down there prices a lot or offer better performance and luxury for the price.
I think that by winning the comparo it tells you that Lexus needs to bring down there prices a lot or offer better performance and luxury for the price.
What is the point of V8? Just to have V8 badge on the back? Whats the point of Genesis then?
08-25-08, 01:33 PM
#19
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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
300C: 5.8s
GS460: 5.6s
Genesis: 5.5s
E550: 4.8s
300C: 5.8s
GS460: 5.6s
Genesis: 5.5s
E550: 4.8s
08-25-08, 01:38 PM
#20
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
300C: 5.8s
GS460: 5.6s
Genesis: 5.5s
E550: 4.8s
300C: 5.8s
GS460: 5.6s
Genesis: 5.5s
E550: 4.8s
08-25-08, 01:38 PM
#21
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this is really an apples to oranges test with all things considered.
The edmunds test was apples to oranges.
08-25-08, 01:49 PM
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[QUOTE=pagemaster;3781922]Wrong.. Not all are rwd, v8, front engine cars. Your examples are mix of v6, v8, front engine, mid engine, turbo etc.
QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing out that that the Miata, Covette, Elise, and Veyron have differences, I am sure no one here was aware of that. The reason I said they were all RWD two seaters is not that I, or anyone else here, didn't know what the rest of the cars come with, it was just to point out that putting comparos together is not an easy issue and although the Genesis, 300c, GS, and E550 are all V8, RWD, sedans, I said that IMO (also might want to go back and recheck that) I thought this was a bizarre group. And of course if I buy your reasoning, I would never, ever include an Audi in a comparison with bimmers, mercs, lexi, etc., unless they were all AWD or FWD. Of course MT doesn't have that problem in other comparos.
If you go back you will also see that I have proposed the point that the more appropriate comparo for the Gensis, which is a Hyundai after all, might be to a sedan from Toyota or Buick that more closely aligns with price and performance numbers (which can have nothing to do with number of cylinders or drive wheels) would be a better comparo group than expecting the Gensis to compete with an E550 or S550 or LS460 or Quattroporte just because it has four doors, a V8, and RWD. But obviously I can take your opinion as you feel it is an appropriate comparo group. I can live with that too.
I still feel that the Genesis is being asked to compete against models that it really shouldn't. Once again, and hopefully this won't be lost, IMO only.
QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing out that that the Miata, Covette, Elise, and Veyron have differences, I am sure no one here was aware of that. The reason I said they were all RWD two seaters is not that I, or anyone else here, didn't know what the rest of the cars come with, it was just to point out that putting comparos together is not an easy issue and although the Genesis, 300c, GS, and E550 are all V8, RWD, sedans, I said that IMO (also might want to go back and recheck that) I thought this was a bizarre group. And of course if I buy your reasoning, I would never, ever include an Audi in a comparison with bimmers, mercs, lexi, etc., unless they were all AWD or FWD. Of course MT doesn't have that problem in other comparos.
If you go back you will also see that I have proposed the point that the more appropriate comparo for the Gensis, which is a Hyundai after all, might be to a sedan from Toyota or Buick that more closely aligns with price and performance numbers (which can have nothing to do with number of cylinders or drive wheels) would be a better comparo group than expecting the Gensis to compete with an E550 or S550 or LS460 or Quattroporte just because it has four doors, a V8, and RWD. But obviously I can take your opinion as you feel it is an appropriate comparo group. I can live with that too.
I still feel that the Genesis is being asked to compete against models that it really shouldn't. Once again, and hopefully this won't be lost, IMO only.
08-25-08, 01:52 PM
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Notice that MT's observed fuel economy for the Genesis V8 was 22.1 mpg, which is pretty damn good for a V8 in a mag test where they're flooring the hell out of it.
Of course, the usual suspects will only refer to the 17.6 it got in the Edmunds comparo and preach that as the gospel.
Of course, the usual suspects will only refer to the 17.6 it got in the Edmunds comparo and preach that as the gospel.
Last edited by carguy101; 08-25-08 at 01:56 PM.
08-25-08, 01:57 PM
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And the reasons why the M3 sedan and say M5 were left out are? Let alone why use the E550 when the E63 could have been used? Still rwd. Still 4 door sedans. And still V8s? I'm not a big fan of the E550 but does anyone really believe that there is a path worn between ChryCo dealers and Merc dealersa as people cross shop the 300c and E550?
But rather than maintain this useless part of the discussion, let me just, once again, say that the fact that the Genesis could be compared to the GS and the E550 are really a credit to Hyundai, let alone mention the Genesis in the same sentence as the LS. Maybe, and I have no reason to back this, Hyundai didn't make a separate luxury brand because the Genesis is a Hyundai and not a luxury brand? To put it simply, the Genesis is much more of an overachieving Hyundai IMO than an underachieving Benz. What impact this has on Genesis sales is anybody's guess but if Hyundai builds on the Genesis, that is far more worrisome to the likes of Lexus than what the car is actually like right now. Lexus may not have to worry about just pricing to compete if Hyundai learns and keeps going. But they also wouldn't be the only car maker that pulled off a success just to follow it up with lackluster "improvements" from then on.
08-25-08, 02:00 PM
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I really don't know why some here are having such difficulties with this? I have a feeling we might both agree on MTs selection for this comparo and I still think it is one strange group. And, as I have said elsewhere, it wouldn't be the first time that MT, and other mags, has put together groupings and then made a vehicle live with a comparison that maybe it should never have been forced into in the first place.