GStateOM

I admit, I guess you could say I'm a GS460 hater. I've taken every chance I had to bash it because of how underpowered it was compared to the competition. But even with that said, it isn't overpriced. The GS isn't overpriced. In fact it isn't like the GS all of a sudden took a dramatic increase in pricing.

All of that is solely subjective. Would it shock you that I told you that I bought a Lexus because of non of the things you mentioned? Like I said, its purely subjective. Even you mentioned that the GS has its advantages. There are all types of different consumers. I know people personally that worked hard all of their life to finally afford a luxury car, and their first priority is a car having a cassette player in it. Makes no sense to you or I, but like I said, that point of view is subjective, just like your point of view of why the GS should cost $10k less.

And btw, the fastest that a 3GS (other than the GS450h) has been clocked at was 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and the quarter in 13.7 (Road&Track). That was with the V6 GS350 AWD. Now that should be good for either the fastest, or 2nd fastest 6 cylinder in its class, right?

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Most of the car guys I know rarely go to the dealership for anything so it really doesn't matter. I myself use independent shops vs the dealership if at all possible. I try and spend as little time at an actual car dealership service center as possible. Again, most of the car guys I hang around with are the same. I guess for certain people the dealership experience means a lot, but when I buy a car it has always been somewhat the same. Never been treated like crap, but have never been treated like a King either. All that happens is we get the deal done and I'm out of there.

By the way, our Lexus dealership doesn't have free coffee or internet. They do have a vending machine though. I give them credit. Once when they made me wait about 45 minutes for my car they did give me a free bottled water. Perhaps my perspective is different from those of you that get all this free internet and are pampered with leather couches at your Lexus dealerships. That is just not how it is for us here so the only thing I expect from a dealership is that they repair my car properly if/when needed and they don't **** me around when it comes to warranty repair.

A car is just a machine, so the best machine should be all that we care about. Who cares if the guy selling the machine wears a suite and tie or shorts and slippers. As long as he sells you the the machine that works for you. The problem is like you said people are all into these "Other" things so they are willing to pass up good cars because the image brings up thoughts of daisy fields and go for a weaker car because the dealership has free internet.

pagemaster

I remember once when I got my Toyota service they gave me an umbrella with the Toyota logo and prase "make things better"

My Toyota dealer offers both leather couches and free internet and a real cafe...ok maybe the leather is synthetic...

pagemaster

There are people that think that Lexus is manufactured for Lexus Motor Company Limited. Its not..it made by Toyota Motor Company Limited for the Lexus brand..as simple as that.

The first LS400 had Toyota stamped all over the glass...Lexus owners should not be ashamed that there Lexus is really a "TOYOTA"

mmarshall

I reviewed a Genesis today (see my post), but was not able to get a 4.6.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Pricing is subjective. People can make the same ol argument about Ferraris, Porsches, Vettes, BMWs, etc. Not everything is priced according to the budget of the masses regardless of the leather, 0-60 times, etc.. For someone dropping 85k on a M5 it is well worth double the admission of a GS. Same for GS owners over an Accord. A new car over a used car and blah blah blah. So what? Allow people to purchase what they want to purchase, nobody here is going to change the minds of others looking to purchase a car and nit picking little things such as etching on the glass makes no difference to the vast majority of buyers. If it did then Lexus would not have sold in the volumes it had.

Hyundai put out a nice effort and though I have not driven one nor do I plan on it either I am sure the owners will enjoy their product.

LexFather

Look, you need to really understand this. There is a difference between platform sharing, rebadging, and building a car from the ground up and badging it differently in different markets.

No one is saying that the first LS wasn't built by Toyota. IT WAS NOT A TOYOTA. It took 8 years to build the LS 400. It was called F1 for FLAGSHIP. Lexus not only studied the competition, they studied luxury owners lifestyle.

It DEBUTED WORLDWIDE AS A LEXUS in 1989. Only IN JAPAN was it a Toyota B/C there WAS NO DEALER NETWORK.

I am not going to explain that again. Toyota didn't spend BILLIONS to make a Toyota. They spent BILLIONS to make a Lexus, which was unheard of at the time.

I strongly suggest reading "The Lexus Story" to know your Lexus history, especially since a large portion is dedicated to the LS 400.

pagemaster

So somewhere it was a Toyota.

So why did my LS400 say "Toyota Glass" when I owned it?....

Why does the Lx570 have "Toyota" stamped on the sheet metal when the bumper is removed?

LexFather

Things are different in HI

If the best machine is all we cared about, we all would drive Corollas. Luxury companies spend BILLIONS in marketing and ads and in keeping their image intact. Lets look at the Mclaren F1. Arugably the greatest roadcar ever, built by a company with formidable F1 history. While the measuring stick, it sold poorly. This trickles all the way down to cars like the Acura RL, which has sold like crap since 1996.

One car is 45-50k, the other was 1 million dollars. The fact is the "brand" did/does not make people want to spend that coin. They would rather go with the usual suspects at that point.

Luxury is not just about "a car". Its the entire feeling of ownership. There are many things that cannot even be scored.
-feel good factor
-the pride of owning that brand
-owning a brand others admire
-is the brand aspirational

This is waaaay bigger than just cars. From Hotels to Silverware, SUCCESSFUL TIER I companies ensure that is not just a good product but the ENTIRE purchase. From the packaging, to the customer service, to the actual product, your brand must be protected at all costs.

Are there people that don't care about all that, they just want the car they feel is best? Sure. They also are such a small percentage, your business would die waiting for them to buy something.

Which gets to the Genesis. Seems to be a complete car, which will appeal to those that do their HW about the car and see how comparable it as with VALUE pricing. Thing is not just in America, but Europe and Japan (both WORSE than here) brand/image/ is everything.

Hyundai took a huge risk here. I salute them for trying.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

The best car is a relative term. That is why I said best car for you The best car IMHO is far from a Corolla IMHO. A good question to ask anyone is if the car they bought now were sold under a different manufacturer but was literally the exact same car (Just badges swapped) would they still have bought it? Some will say no, but most will say yes because they like their car and bought for specific reasons.

I agree with you about the business part of it all, but I really don't care about the business side of it at all. I'm selfish in that regard. Give me the car I want or I'll get it from someone else. I really don't care if its profitable to them or not. That is why I like cars, and not finance/accounting

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Even if it said Toyota on the rear, so what? Your arguing a mute point. Get over it and back on topic.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I think we all get the point. I would have bought some of the Lexus cars I bought even if it were badged a Toyota because the car itself is good. In fact, a lot of my friends rebadge their cars to Toyora Aristo, Celsior and such. The badge to me is just a piece of plastic that I remove most of the time anyway when feasible. Anyway, have to get back to the Hyundai Genesis. Forget about what is or is not Lexus.

The Genesis itself was created from the ground up just like the LS to be an upscale luxury car above the regular Hyundai line. It does not share a platform with other curreny Hyundai. This car is the real deal. People may not want to buy this car, but its hard to knock this car down especially when a lot of other luxury cars out today aren't nearly as good themselves.

carguy101

To me, this "dealership experience" thing is overblown. Seriously, how much do you guys spend at the dealer.

When due for a service, I drop the car off, then come back later to pick it up, a couple times a year. Don't really care how shiny the floors are.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

^^^^ i sepnd a lot of time at the dealer washing cars, and i enjoy the extra shinny floors haha

pagemaster

I think Lexus has a shock on their hands in the next few years. I don't think people will pay the current prices for the cars and the service like they did before. I think the next 5 years will determine where the Lexus brand goes. I think they either will downsize just a bit or go full line manufacturer..I just can't see Lexus staying the same. It is not all that their cars a bad but the competition is so competitive the LS and ES look stale even after only two years on the market.

I don't think people are going to be willing to pay the service prices and mark ups on Lexus models like the used. Yes the service at Lexus is good but almost all car service dealers take the customer service very seriously...Where I take my Toyota, they have leather couches, vending machines, coffee, HD tv, magazines etc. I am not sure how it could be any better.

I think Hyundai has hit a huge homerun with their new Genesis in that it really blurrs the definition of what a luxury car should be.