From BusinessWeek, America's Most Leased Cars:
08-28-08, 01:06 AM
#31
I understand where you're coming from, Henry, but have to disagree. There may be a few clients who feel that way, but in most cases (see my post above), they are going to resent knowing that the money for that "prestige" car (whether bought or leased), was financed by a big fee or commission; yes, out of that client's wallet.
That is especially true of today's tough real estate situation.....a lot of potential clients are mad enough at market conditons as they are, and in no mood to fool around with excessive agent fees.
That is especially true of today's tough real estate situation.....a lot of potential clients are mad enough at market conditons as they are, and in no mood to fool around with excessive agent fees.
08-28-08, 09:23 AM
#32
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I love leasing! After going through multiple luxury cars, I don't think I'd ever buy one again. It doesn't mean I can't afford to, I just choose not to. My previous Lexus cars were financed and paid off ('01 IS300 and '02 RX300), but when it came time to sell them, I didn't get anywhere close to KBB or NADA value. Just market conditions I guess, but I was just lucky enough to unload them on friends and family. My sister is recently trying to sell her '04 BMW 325ci, which is also paid off. Again, she's having a difficult time finding buyers and places like Carmax aren't giving anywhere close to KBB. Point is, I hate trying to unload these cars.
The '05 RL I had was actually the first car I've ever leased. When it came time to dump it, I merely had the inspection done a month beforehand, and then dropped it off at the dealer when the time came. Badda-bing, no-hassle. And no, I didn't lease because I couldn't afford the car, I leased because I wasn't sure the RL was a car I wanted to keep for the long term. Hell, at the time I was cross shopping it with the 5-series, A6, E-class, GS and could've afforded to finance either.
I mention the term finance a lot and put it in italics because a lot of people like to say "buy" or "purchase", but in reality, there are very few who can actually do a cash purchase on a $40k to $50k vehicle. And as long as you're financing, you don't actually ever really own the car anyway, until it's paid off. And for a lot of people, by the time it's paid off, they either want or have already found a new vehicle.
Anyhow, I'm still at an 'immature' mindset where I feel compelled to get a new and shiny depreciating asset every three years or so. Can't help it, i love cars, it's a sickness. I will always have at least 2 vehicles, so to cope, I've re-organized my thinking now to the following:
1) Daily driver/beater (sub $25k car) = Finance. Something reliable where I can put on as many miles as I want and not be too concerned about roughing it up a little. My switch hitter or clutch car.
2) Luxury car = Lease. The babied car. Rinse and repeat every three years or so until I've matured to the point I don't need the latest and greatest. In the meantime, writing off mileage or the entire monthly lease payment as a business expense
The '05 RL I had was actually the first car I've ever leased. When it came time to dump it, I merely had the inspection done a month beforehand, and then dropped it off at the dealer when the time came. Badda-bing, no-hassle. And no, I didn't lease because I couldn't afford the car, I leased because I wasn't sure the RL was a car I wanted to keep for the long term. Hell, at the time I was cross shopping it with the 5-series, A6, E-class, GS and could've afforded to finance either.
I mention the term finance a lot and put it in italics because a lot of people like to say "buy" or "purchase", but in reality, there are very few who can actually do a cash purchase on a $40k to $50k vehicle. And as long as you're financing, you don't actually ever really own the car anyway, until it's paid off. And for a lot of people, by the time it's paid off, they either want or have already found a new vehicle.
Anyhow, I'm still at an 'immature' mindset where I feel compelled to get a new and shiny depreciating asset every three years or so. Can't help it, i love cars, it's a sickness. I will always have at least 2 vehicles, so to cope, I've re-organized my thinking now to the following:
1) Daily driver/beater (sub $25k car) = Finance. Something reliable where I can put on as many miles as I want and not be too concerned about roughing it up a little. My switch hitter or clutch car.
2) Luxury car = Lease. The babied car. Rinse and repeat every three years or so until I've matured to the point I don't need the latest and greatest. In the meantime, writing off mileage or the entire monthly lease payment as a business expense
08-28-08, 01:13 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
uh no, if you are looking for a house a agent that has a nice car is probably doing good enough to afford that car even if it is a lease. you want that agent that has proven that they can do a good sale and had a good sales record. and if you were buying a house and are mad at agent fees there are methods to reduce that fee. getting mad at the agents car doesnt make much sense, so if that agent is wearing an expensive watch or carrying an expensive purse thats bad too, right? anyways,
but many people do not agree.
leasing isnt always bad, in fact im looking at a european car for my next one, good thing it will be for work, nice deduction and i dont have to worry about selling it if the market demand drops, like how its dropped for suvs.
08-28-08, 06:49 PM
#34
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Aside from all that, people aren't foolish enough to waste tremendous amounts of money to fix this Euro junk after the warranty ends after the typical lease period. So they lease and keep vehicles only within warranty.
So it's interesting that people know about the problems associated with owning German cars but still need that image and prestige and therefore proceed to lease.
While reliable high quality Japanese cars receive the full investment from customers who PURCHASE their cars.
So it's interesting that people know about the problems associated with owning German cars but still need that image and prestige and therefore proceed to lease.
While reliable high quality Japanese cars receive the full investment from customers who PURCHASE their cars.
08-28-08, 09:22 PM
#35
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Lexus was named #1 in luxury leases last year although this makes no sense whatsoever as their residuals kind of bite (see thread posts)
08-28-08, 09:30 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
I'm surprised the 3-series isn't on there... they have great lease rates and it seems people love to lease them and drive them hard. At least that's why I leased mine.. to drive the **** out of it and never feel guilty about it. Plus the fact that german cars are just generally too much of a headache for me to want to own... while nothing really really wrong has happened with my 335i... if I owned it there's a list of nit-picks that it would have been into the dealer for by now.
Leasing is a stress reliever, a fun-giver, and gives me a sense of financial security too since I know exactly what it's going to cost me to own after 2 years.
I could have wrote a check for the damn thing and a few more in other colors... so it's not about affording it.
Leasing is a stress reliever, a fun-giver, and gives me a sense of financial security too since I know exactly what it's going to cost me to own after 2 years.
I could have wrote a check for the damn thing and a few more in other colors... so it's not about affording it.
08-28-08, 10:15 PM
#37
Out of Warranty
The article doesn't really explain the selection criteria - evidently these are private leases. When I've seen lease figures in the past, the #1 leased vehicle was a Ford F-150, followed by a number of American 4-door sedans. These are the traditional company vehicles of corporate America, and European sports/luxury cars hardly made the cut.
Corporate leasing, until a couple of years ago made a great deal of sense, for overall cost and tax advantages. A few changes in state tax laws has made leasing a bit less attractive, but a huge percentage of leases are still held by corporations.
Corporate leasing, until a couple of years ago made a great deal of sense, for overall cost and tax advantages. A few changes in state tax laws has made leasing a bit less attractive, but a huge percentage of leases are still held by corporations.
08-28-08, 10:39 PM
#38
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I'm surprised the 3-series isn't on there... they have great lease rates and it seems people love to lease them and drive them hard. At least that's why I leased mine.. to drive the **** out of it and never feel guilty about it. Plus the fact that german cars are just generally too much of a headache for me to want to own... while nothing really really wrong has happened with my 335i... if I owned it there's a list of nit-picks that it would have been into the dealer for by now.
Leasing is a stress reliever, a fun-giver, and gives me a sense of financial security too since I know exactly what it's going to cost me to own after 2 years.
I could have wrote a check for the damn thing and a few more in other colors... so it's not about affording it.
Leasing is a stress reliever, a fun-giver, and gives me a sense of financial security too since I know exactly what it's going to cost me to own after 2 years.
I could have wrote a check for the damn thing and a few more in other colors... so it's not about affording it.
Still high but not as high as these figures. Wow.
08-29-08, 05:33 AM
#39
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If I can afford $X and for that $X I can buy an ES350 or a lease a 7-series. Why does it make me a poser if I choose the 7-series?
Correct - the dealer profit on the Japanese cars is HUGE compared to the European cars. There was over $9K of dealer cushion in my GS430. So while the GS430 was $8-$10K less expensive than the 540 at the time, if you went down to what you could buy the car for, it was about $15K less expensive.
Yes, at the end of a product life cycle you can get good deals on most cars.....
Exactly. Historically, the Japanese luxury marques have had much better deals when it came to financing and getting discounts. In my experience, it was always easier to get a Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura dealer to come down in price versus BMW or Mercedes. Also, in contrast, the Europeans have historically had a better money factor making leasing more attractive than financing.
Yes, at the end of a product life cycle you can get good deals on most cars.....
08-29-08, 05:45 AM
#40
If I can afford $X and for that $X I can buy an ES350 or a lease a 7-series. Why does it make me a poser if I choose the 7-series?
Correct - the dealer profit on the Japanese cars is HUGE compared to the European cars. There was over $9K of dealer cushion in my GS430. So while the GS430 was $8-$10K less expensive than the 540 at the time, if you went down to what you could buy the car for, it was about $15K less expensive.
Yes, at the end of a product life cycle you can get good deals on most cars.....
Correct - the dealer profit on the Japanese cars is HUGE compared to the European cars. There was over $9K of dealer cushion in my GS430. So while the GS430 was $8-$10K less expensive than the 540 at the time, if you went down to what you could buy the car for, it was about $15K less expensive.
Yes, at the end of a product life cycle you can get good deals on most cars.....
08-29-08, 06:27 AM
#41
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Interesting thread... 
I leased a 2006 Mini Cooper S (loaded) mainly due to the fear of so-so reliability and selling it later on. I just felt better knowing BMW owned it and I didn't.
Plus the lease rate was pretty ridiculous ($299/mo) and the Mini is the most fun I've ever had in a car with my clothes on so the deal worked out VERY well for me. They do all maintenance so I spend nothing extra.
Even better the lease end buyout is projected (currently) to be under $5,000+ the actual market value when the lease it up. I'm guessing due to gas prices and Mini appeal. So depending on how that continues, I may may even buy it to sell it off for a few G's in my pocket. We'll see.
So leasing has it's advantages. And if you're a smart shopper, lease trading can get you an even better deal for a shorter term if you want to drive as many different cars as you can before you die (like me and trd4me).
I leased a 2006 Mini Cooper S (loaded) mainly due to the fear of so-so reliability and selling it later on. I just felt better knowing BMW owned it and I didn't.
Plus the lease rate was pretty ridiculous ($299/mo) and the Mini is the most fun I've ever had in a car with my clothes on so the deal worked out VERY well for me. They do all maintenance so I spend nothing extra.
Even better the lease end buyout is projected (currently) to be under $5,000+ the actual market value when the lease it up. I'm guessing due to gas prices and Mini appeal. So depending on how that continues, I may may even buy it to sell it off for a few G's in my pocket. We'll see.
So leasing has it's advantages. And if you're a smart shopper, lease trading can get you an even better deal for a shorter term if you want to drive as many different cars as you can before you die (like me and trd4me).
08-29-08, 08:58 AM
#42
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Notice a trend here, guys? 
All of these vehicles are upmarket Euro-nameplates and Euro-designed, except for the Saab 9-7X, which is a joint Saab-Chevy Trail Blazer SUV design.
That, to me, makes one thing stand out like a sore thumb. The "image" factor of expensive Euro-vehicles has got a lot of people hooked. They are determined to have one, even if they can't afford the purchase payments on one, so they lease one instead to cut the monthly bill way down. Some people, of course, lease because they use the car in buisness, and they can deduct the lease payments, but even then, the "image" factor comes into play. Real estate agents and other buisness reps want an expensive Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Jag to "impress" their clients/customers with........as if you're going to buy or rent a house based on what your real estate agent drives.
This, to me, shows even more what B.S. the whole world of auto "image" and stereotypes are, and how people fall for it.
All of these vehicles are upmarket Euro-nameplates and Euro-designed, except for the Saab 9-7X, which is a joint Saab-Chevy Trail Blazer SUV design.
That, to me, makes one thing stand out like a sore thumb. The "image" factor of expensive Euro-vehicles has got a lot of people hooked. They are determined to have one, even if they can't afford the purchase payments on one, so they lease one instead to cut the monthly bill way down. Some people, of course, lease because they use the car in buisness, and they can deduct the lease payments, but even then, the "image" factor comes into play. Real estate agents and other buisness reps want an expensive Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Jag to "impress" their clients/customers with........as if you're going to buy or rent a house based on what your real estate agent drives.
This, to me, shows even more what B.S. the whole world of auto "image" and stereotypes are, and how people fall for it.
08-29-08, 10:04 AM
#43
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Even better the lease end buyout is projected (currently) to be under $5,000+ the actual market value when the lease it up. I'm guessing due to gas prices and Mini appeal. So depending on how that continues, I may may even buy it to sell it off for a few G's in my pocket. We'll see.
So leasing has it's advantages. And if you're a smart shopper, lease trading can get you an even better deal for a shorter term if you want to drive as many different cars as you can before you die (like me and trd4me).
So leasing has it's advantages. And if you're a smart shopper, lease trading can get you an even better deal for a shorter term if you want to drive as many different cars as you can before you die (like me and trd4me).
If the car is in high demand (like your Mini) you can sometimes make some money when market value is higher than the residual. The value on the Acura tanked, but a month or so before my lease was up, i got several mailers from GM, Ford, Toyota, and Honda offering up to $2k in incentives to get their car.
08-29-08, 11:29 AM
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08-29-08, 04:23 PM
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