doug_999

Sigh... I challenge you to drive an active steering 5-series back to back with a non-active steering 5-series and tell me they have different steering feel. The active steering does not mess with the feel - period.

I could not disagree more. I just have not seen this type of attitude in any of the BMW dealers I've been in since 1995. I do see them with the same attitude that I see with all luxury vehicles, they will not jump all over the 18 year old kid that just wants to take the thing out for a ride (even though he may be a qualified buyer). They prefer (just like the Lexus/Infiniti/MB dealers) that you schedule an appointment to meet with your sales rep. Walk in on a Saturday and they are often so busy that you will get ignored - but like I said, I've seen this at all luxury dealers - I don't see it as arrogance.



WRONG WRONG WRONG - and you even pointed it out with your description of Cadillac! The typical Cadillac buyer was very old and the new ones to the fold did not want what the old ones did. They moved the brand forward (and yes alienated some of their "typical" buyers). But it was the right thing to do.

Once again, I've yet to see what you have been seeing. The comment may have sounded arrogant, but the tone was not and boy were they right.

Max707

I've owned way too many highline cars, Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, etc. I bought my SL550 for the looks and it was also fun to drive, not a Porsche but fun. I like my LX470 for the utility, quality and dependablity and it handles the way I feel a SUV should handle. I am going to have to try a BMW. Kind of weird with all the cars I've owned I have never even driven a BMW . I have read for ever in the car mag's how great the handled and I even like the way they look. When I bought my new SL I looked at a BMW M6 but did not drive it, since I really loved the looks of the SL. I think I will drive some BMW's.

mmarshall

I feel, on your other responses above, you're entitled to your views, so I did not refute them, but I have to reply to this one. Old or not, the "typical" Cadillac buyer that likes big, softly-sprung, cushy cars (and yes, the few younger buyers who do too), were Cadillac's bread-and-butter. The oldest of them are now dying off, of course, but are being replaced by a enormous Baby Boom Retirement generation (the largest in history) that is also going to want some of the same cars. Cadillac, to an extent, is ignoring them, too (These are people basically in their 50s, approaching 60).

The CTS, STS, and their V sport-variants are just not going to appeal to many in this age group. If Cadillac does not build cars suited to them, and if other competing manufacturers also move away from their market like Lincoln, Infiniti, and others have done, there is going to be a HUGE market in used cars............the big, softly-sprung cars no longer in production. Used Town Cars, DeVilles, DTS, etc.... are going to be highly sought after by older people and worth their weight in gold, especially if they are restored or in mint condition. Today's marketers are going to find they made a mistake by no longer producing them. And, worst of all, the GOVERNMENT is going to find it made a mistake with the latest round of CAFE rules that will kill off even more big cars.

But, hey, mistakes DO happen.........it wouldn't be the first time. Mercedes has already admitted the R-Class was a mistake. Chrysler the same with the Pacifica. And the Pontiac Aztek?.............

I don't want to sound harsh or unfriendly, doug, but I think there are a few BMW-related (and other upmarket-brand) issues that you and I are just going to disagree on. But I don't have a low opinion of BMWs at all, outside of their I-Drive, electronic defects, and the sometimes overpricing compared to competitors. They don't call it the Ultimate Driving Machine for nothing. In fact, if I was in the market for a RWD car, the 335i would be VERY high on my list...and I think it can be had, in base version, without I-Drive.

Max707

WoW, you are way off on this post. Baby boomers don't want big old cushy Cad's. They want what Cad is building now. That is why Cad is building them. If you want the old Cad that is what Buick is for. Look around when you drive down the street. If you see a Buick you see a white hair 65+ driving it.

SLegacy99

I guess its true. My parents are going back for their third Lexus. And they have made a believer out of me.

mmarshall

No, I'm not way off. If I WAS way off, I wouldn't have posted it. I'm a Boomer myself, and grew up with them. I know what I've seen through the years. They brought in the Muscle-Car era of the 60's, and for a long time, it was true that they didn't want big cushy cars, but you would be surprised at the number that are NOW looking at the DTS and Town Car before they go out of production. When arthritis and back problems arise, people react....they don't want sports-car rides any more. They are the largest generation in history, and are rapidly following in the World War II generation's footsteps.....the primary customers of the big American luxury car.

Buicks, I admit, even mid-sized ones, DO appeal to a lot of older folks, but they are not devoid of younger buyers either.

mmarshall

AWD Subarus aren't plush enough anymore? You're looking at an RX350? Or an IS/GS AWD?

Check out the top-level Outbacks before you do. The L.L. Bean is out of production now, but the Limited model is plenty plush. And 2009 is the last year for the present-geneneration Legacy/Outback before Subaru redesigns it next year......and probably screws it up like they did the new Forester. I'm possibly looking at one myself next year.

mmarshall

If driving feel is what you are after, it is hard to beat the feel of BMW steering and chassis sophistication. But don't take my word for it...go try them out yourself. There will probably be a smile on your face.

However, keep in mind that with all but low-line, entry-level BMW's, you will also have some frustrating designs on the dash and controls (Opinions differ sharply on the I-Drive, but I find it complex and difficult to use). The electronic transmission shifters on some high-end models are also not easy to use....those on the low-end models are much simpler and more conventional.

pagemaster

I think you are right on with this post. Cadillac has done a very good job of seprating themselves from the rest of the GM brands and I have to give them credit for it. They have also done a very good job with their styling and their CTS vehicles.

I give them a lot of credit. When I hear Cadillac I instantly think of the CTS sedan and the edgy styling.

mmarshall

I won't argue with the new Caddy styling...it IS crisp-looking. But Caddy should leave at least one big cushy cruiser in the lineup.....preferably the DTS......for the non-sporting crowd. Mercedes, for example, does so in their lineup.....the big, smooth-riding, cushy S550. Lexus also does with the LS460, although the new 460, admittedly, has slightly more aggressive tires than the LS430 it replaces.

pagemaster

I think there will be room for one more DTS redesign. I think Toyota has also realized the potential they have with the Toyota Avalon by keeping it around a little longer. With Lexus, I think Lexus would have a MEGA hit if they made a Avalon sized ES next time around...and even bigger hit if they built in the USA.

The ES350 biggest drawback is that it is not built exclusively for the US market.

LexBob2

I have to disagree. Today's boomers aren't currently driving the big Caddy's and Lincolns, so I don't think they are going to want one when they retire. They are going to keep buying cars like they are curently driving or ones they aspire to CTS, MKZ etc. There won't be many Town Cars etc. on their wish lists. Those cars had their day, made a lot of owners happy, and made the automakers a lot of money, but times have changed. We're both driving cars that are different than the big Cadillacs and Lincolns.

mmarshall

OK....we're just going to see this in different lights, that's all, and respectfully disagree. I don't see where times have changed at all for those who like these cars. But...... No use for me and others dominating the thread with just talk of big Caddys and Lincolns. This thread is for all luxury car owner-preferences, so we can move on to those, too.

SLegacy99

Oh and I didn't say that I had the money to be a Lexus loyalist.

And yes, I am expecting Subaru to follow suit with their latest trend of making ugly cars. And yet they are setting sales records.

mmarshall

The problem with the new Forester is not so much being "ugly" so much as it is strong decontenting, cheapening, and cost-cutting (with one or two exceptions). The sheet metal, interior, cargo area, and dash, especially, have been noticeably downgraded. You see the same interior cheapening in the new Impreza. That's why I might replace my Outback with an '09 before Subaru screws it up, too.