Stage3

iTrader: (3)

In about a years time, chances are I'll be moving to a northeastern state. Currently, I have a RWD GS4 and am not sure as to how it will do in the snow and funk that comes along with winters in the north east. I've been starting to glance around at sedans with AWD and am starting to weigh my options for a new vehicle. I've looked at the Lexus options (IS, GS, and RX) and I'm digging the IS250AWD as it might be more in my price range and size range than the others. What other options do you folks think would be viable in terms of price, size, and drivetrain? Also, I've never driven in the snow, so I don't know what to expect. I don't expect to be doing much driving in the snow, but I have a feeling that it's going to happen eventually.

Here are some specifics:
Price Range: $25-30k
Size: At least a sedan (maybe even a small SUV)
Has to be AWD!

Thoughts?

thetopdog

You should be with the GS. If you put a decent set of snow tires or even all seasons, you won't have a problem in the snow. You also should realize that there are only a handful of days every year where you'll actually have to drive through the snow, if you live in or near any major city, the roads get cleared pretty quickly. I think AWD is overrated

mmarshall

I have to disagree about AWD being overrated. It not only helps out on snow and ice, but also markedly improves traction on wet, sandy, and gravel surfaces as well. Even if the surface is paved and dy, it will also help cornering grip to an extent. It is no coincidence that some of the world's best rally cars, like the Subaru WRX/STI and Mitsubishi Evo come with AWD standard, with driver-controllable differentials.

However, AWD is not a free ride..........it does have its drawbacks. It adds weight, drag and complexity to the drivetrain, burdening down the engine somewhat and cutting into power and gas mileage. It can, sometimes, complicate a flat-tire change with a small donut spare, requiring rotation and disconnecting the AWD fuse. It can also, sometimes (depending on tire condition) require the replacement of all of the tires at once instead of just one or two (even if only one or two actually need replacing) to keep all four tires the same diameter and rotation speeds and wear on the center differential constant.

Among today's manufacturers, Subaru, Porsche, and Audi are considered to have the best AWD systems, because they they generally use engines whose output shafts go straight back behind the engine, greatly reducing the amount of hardware needed behind the engine to get the torque to all four drive wheels. Other systems, which use sideways (transverse) mounted engines, need more hardware to adapt to an AWD layout. Subaru, in particular, does AWD well because their low, flat (boxer) engines not only make AWD simpler but lower the center of gravity as well, improving handling and stability. Porsche flat-fours and flat-sixes also have a low center of gravity, but their AWD systems, because of the rear-engine layout, have another whole set of issues that Subaru systems don't.....their systems have to work in reverse, and steer the front wheels, farthest away from the engine.

Last, also remember that tires, even on AWD systems, can make a difference. On an AWD vehicle, you will better max wet/snow/ice traction with all-season or purpose-designed rain/snow tires than with, say, the summer high-performance tires that come on extremely sport-oriented AWD cars like the Evo, STi, or Porsches. That is something to take into account if you plan on buying one of these vehicles.....buying a good set of all-seasons or rain/snow tires for winter use if you get a lot of rain or snow. You will lose some dry-weather performance, but be significantly safer when the weather turns bad.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

you should be fine with the gs, just think of back in the day of people who drove in the snow with those HUGE caddy's and lincolns in the snow haha, no but seriously, there should be no worries and if you ever decide to sell your car up here in the northeast, youll get a lot more money up here then in florida cause people up here pay more for southern cars

thetopdog

I know we've discussed this before, but AWD is far from being necessary in my opinion. Sure it improves traction, but it's not needed to get around safely on 99% of the roads in this country. RWD with a decent set of tires is more than enough for a competent driver

mmarshall

I grew up with big, RWD cars back in the 1960s and 70s. They weren't worth a damn on snow and ice, even with snow tires, which increased the traction a little but not that significantly. Studded tires and chains DID help a lot, but studded tires became outlawed in many places, and chains are a PITA to take on and off.

Today, of course, you have ABS and traction/stability systems that didn't exist back then, but you still cannot overrule the rules of physics. All else equal, a front engine/rear drive car will always be at a disadvantage on slick surfaces, compared to other drivetrain layouts.

mmarshall

I understand and respect your opinion. And, in my post I was fair enough to list the negative aspects of AWD as well (gas mileage, power drag, tire-change requirements, etc...).

However, after owning an AWD Subaru, I am completely sold on it, particularly in Subaru (boxer) engine form......even in the DC area, which generally has winters that can't compare with those further north and inland.

I don't make that statement lightly, either. I've been driving and reviewing cars for almost 40 years.....though, in humility, I don't necessarily consider my opinion more important than anyone else's.

mikez

There are so many 2nd gen GS in here and Canada you wouldnt think they are RWD, you will do fine.

mmarshall

A used IS250 AWD in your price range is a fine choice, IF it is not too sluggish for you. (I've reviewed and driven one). Remember, though that AWD (as I posted above) cuts into power and gas mileage. If you want an IS350's power, the 250 AWD will feel like a snail in comparison. All IS models also have a sardine-can-like rear seat......an important point to consider if you carry tall people in back. And keep in mind that you will want rain/snow tires (or at least all-season) tires for best foul-weather traction.........standard IS250 AWD tires are low-profile 45-series for summer dry-pavenent conditions, which works against traction on wet/slick roads. And, unlike the older IS300, 55-series all-seasons are no longer available from the factory. IS AWD models also have rather low ground clearance....they will not attack heavy snow as well as, say, a Subaru Outback/Forester or an SUV.

But overall the IS250 AWD is a nice car....I am considering one myself (but probably another Subaru) as my next purchase.

SLegacy99

I disagree. I have always driven AWD and I refuse to get anything else. Personally, I believe it improves handling drastically on say winding back roads. Having drive these roads also in my bro's IS300 and can say confidently that my Subaru is more connected to the road.

UberNoob

in modern days

RWD + snow tires > AWD + summer or all seasons

i drive my 2GS in the snow few times a year
and i cope with it just fine
on all-season tires as well

just need to take it slow and learn the proper techniques for getting out of snow

thetopdog

Nothing in this post contradicts my point that "AWD is far from being necessary [...] it's not needed to get around safely on 99% of the roads in this country. RWD with a decent set of tires is more than enough for a competent driver"

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Get an AWD vehicle with some ground clearance if will be your daily during in the NE.. I can tell you 4 wheel drive cars did not stand a chance on the flooded highways of NYC Saturday afternoon due to the rain from hurricane. Gustav. My X3 came through like a champ

Your options for 25k new

Toyota Rav4L V6
Nissan Rogue
Nissan Murano SL
Mitsubishi Outlander
VW Tiguan

Many choices used

Porshe Cayenne
Lexus Rx330
BMW X5/X3
Lexus GX470
Toyota 4 Runner
Land Rover LR2/LR3/ Range

rdgdawg

Truer words could not be spoken... my old IS with AWD saved my a-- several times with 100" of snow last winter... I've driven front, rear and AWD here and AWD makes a big difference BUT isn't a live-saver if you drive foolishly... and yes, you do lose some performance (but it's a 250 anyway so you should know what you're getting) but you do gain on handling. Reason I'm going with an IS-F is that it will sit on bad winter days, I'll drive either Jeep 4-wheel or our FWD minivan....

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

The new Legacy is pretty nice.