MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Every one of pagemaster's threads is troll bait. Haven't you noticed?

Truthfully, I am starting to wonder how old he/she is and how much experience he/she has driving cars at all. I can't say I've ever read a post mentioning personal driving experience or ownership of a vehicle, but again, I typically just skip his/her posts anyway.

marshmallo

I like both cars. Maybe the LS is still not in the same class as the S, but
it has narrowed the gap appreciably with AWD, Hybrid and LWB/SWB
options.

MGS4

I'd go with LS because it has big buttons

pagemaster

I did own a Lexus and I own a Toyota right now. My ES300 was a fantastic car that did what it was supposed to do without ever breaking and barely ever breaking a sweat. I also think the LS430 was the best ever Lexus and was the benchmark for luxury cars at the time.

I also said that the LS is a very very good car and does what its stuff well but I don't think it is the benchmark (S class is) and cannot compete with the S550, S600 or 750 for that matter.

Why I say it is an entry level model is because it competes with the entry level S450 and 745. As for the hybrid...nice try but it does not compete as well with the v12 offerings.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

There is no trolling here. I think pagemaster makes very good points and he's just giving his own personal opinions like everyone else here. CL is one of the least biased forum on the net right now. We have members who do not own Lexus yet they post here on a daily basis.

Baiting/trolling would be "Lexus sucks, BMW is way better" without any reasoning. No where did he did such thing. He opened up a discussion and many followed through without problems. Can't we all just get along?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

There is definitely nothing wrong with being a 'entry' flagship. It just means lexus doesn't have any engine output that meets or surpasses' BMW/MB's offering. The LS is a very very good car. Anyone who says it 'sucks' or 'cheap' are wayyy too blind or have never given the LS a chance. However, many have criticized automobile makers that you're not in the same class if you dont offer a comparable engine. So no matter how good Car A is, it's never comparable to Car B because car B as a V8. Now the tables have turned. No matter how great the LS is, it's not on the same pedistal as a V12 bi-turbo Benz No need to dispute this otherwise you're just contradicting yourself.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

If you can really sit there and say that the LS cannot compete with the S Class and 7 series, then I honestly say that I have absolutely no respect for your opinions or future posts on this forum. What's next? The Genesis bests the LS 460?

There is no doubt that the LS 460 is head and shoulders above the current 7 series in every measure, except perhaps cornering ability . The S550 and LS 460 compete very, very favorably, the LS 600hL and S63 are completely different beasts with different target markets, and the S450 isn't sold in America.

There is no S450 in America and BMW hasn't built the 745i in three years, so I am not sure what to really make of your post. Are you sure that you know what you are talking about? If you mean the European spec models, then the LS has a powertrain that completely surpasses them both in every regard.

Lastly, the LS 600hL and S63, while slightly similar, are very different. If you cannot respect the LS 600hL as a technological marvel packed to the brim with industry leading technology, and the S63 as a blisteringly fast uber sedan, but both as something different, then as I stated above I just feel like your opinions hold no value because you quite simply have no idea what you're talking about.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

The problem is that almost every single thread or post started by pagemaster is critical of the company and it's products in an unfounded way. All of the comments about the Genesis completely owning the GS, the "what is wrong with Toyota/Lexus" thread, calling almost every Lexus product ugly and over priced, and now this thread?

Come on.

pagemaster is a hater. He might be good at trying to be coy, but the dude is a hater none the less. And it's not even that he posts his opinions in a logical matter with fact to back them up...he simply posts to rouse his own Lexus hating ego and nothing more. Just look at the rhetoric he has used in this thread.

LexFather

Ladies and Gents, lets stick on the topic here. If you think there is trolling, you can alert the moderator staff with the alert button on the bottom left part of your screen.

I'll be in here later to read through this posts but Pagemaster, do your research.
The S class can be had with a V-6 in Europe, the S350. The S/A8/7 can all be had with 6 cylinder diesels as well.

So that is way more entry level, than the V-8 only LS

Check.

Checkmate comes when I return.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

personal opinions are all cool imho. some people are biased against bmw, some against mb, and some lexus. me i think maybe i am biased against lexus, and i think the LS looks gorgeous, while i think the new s looks horrible both exterior and interior (and yes i actually thought about getting the car).

i love to read other people's comments, as long as they are constructive and have their words across. however, just saying what he thinks the s class looks better and then say LS is just entry level and s class is the benchmark, i have to say i don't see what that's based on and that means nothing to me at all. it's like me saying the LS is the benchmark coz' i think LS looks the best to me. that's pointless at best

i don't call myself expert, but i happen to actually OWNED a ls460l before, and i seriously SHOPPED for s550 as well. my take on the 2 cars?
- s roof lining is horrible compare to ls
- s side mirrors design is bad
- s nav system not as good as ls
- s seats are larger and better than ls
- s is harder to drive
- s550 is no faster than ls
- s feels heavier and more solid

the LS aside, i think it's silly to say the that the new s steps into the league that's reserved for a8/750? s has always been in the same league with those cars imho. and for all i care, the ls too

pagemaster

Absolutely not. I was in the Toyota/Lexus dealer today to get my Ontario regulated BS emission test and they had a bunch of Lexus models. Three cars of note were the LS600h which is on sale for $130,000 Can dollars. IMHO the LS600h is not a car that can command a $130,000 price tag. Yes it does have hybrid but so does a Camry, yes it does have a 5.0 litre motor but so does the IS-F. Interior is not much better than the $80k LS460 so I don't see why it should have a $50k price hike.

I remember when they had the LS430 years back in the showroom. I would close the door and would not anything from outside. IMO the LS600h was not as quiet as the LS430 when the doors were shut.

They had a SC430 inside. Build quality, fit and finish, interior materials are incredible. To bad there is not market for them anymore.

IS-F...looks like $60k car. Materials, styling, fit and finish and performance are all deemed worthy of the price tag. This car has grown on me and is a M3 fighter. No doubt about it.

RX350..Time for redesign. enough said.

ES350..not as nice as my old ES350.

GS460. Very nice car, good interior, good styling..but the Genesis is slightly faster, handles a little better, is cheaper. I call that pushing the defintion of luxury car especially for the price. Sure you don't get the dealer service, free coffee, internet but the Genesis out performs the GS. I will give the GS respect for reliability but is it worth such a premium...I don't think so.

GFerg

Removed some posts. Please keep this on the topic at hand and not about the poster. As stated before, if you have a problem with anyone alert the moderator team or simply put him/her on your ignore list.

UberNoob

just because LS600HL shares some advanced technologies with lower price ranged, that does not make it any lesser of a car

first of all, its LS600HL, its a long-wheel base car so you should not be comparing it to short wheel base LS460 in the first place

so what if it has a 5L motor that IS-F has also
does S63 not have the same motor as C63 (minus the detune in C63 for marketing purposes)

unless you really take a much closer look into the LS series and beyond that first 3 minutes, i dont think you have anything to go on based on the points you have mentioned

have you even driven a Genesis and a GS460?
do you get the same fit and finish and attention to detail?
absolutely not
i can easily find another car out there that is cheaper than GS460, much faster and corners better
but obviously there would be sacrifices
otherwise the automaker must be running sweatshops

-J-P-L-

I guess it's all a matter of personal preference because I think the LS has broken past the benchmark and cannot be competed against right now. I think the new S-class is a great car and far and away better than the piece of garbage that the last gen was but the LS is just on a whole new level.

But if you prefer a car that:

- will have lots of problems and keep you in the shop
- is harder to drive and operate
- has less high tech features
- has old Ford Focus fenders
- and still costs a lot more

then by all means, go for the S-Class.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Fair enough. At least you have some constructive criticism of your own and at least you came back to your original post, unlike your LS430 vs LS460

Unlike the S550 vs LS460 (in the other forum) it was much worst. Talk about no constructive criticism and mindless.