If you loose respect for "copying", then you should also be wary of Lexus. Lexus has been criticized in terms of styling for shamelessly copying the BMW Hoffmeister kink, which is clearly visible on the IS, GS and LS sedans. Now, personally I don't think Lexus "copied" the BMW Hoffmeister kink and nor do I think Mercedes ripped of the BMW interior. Similarities? Yes. Direct copies? No.


The infamous Bangle truck was actually a product of the Mercedes design department many years before Christopher Bangle even added it to the BMW 7 series.

The Maybach concept from 1997. If you look closely you can see that the rear elements in this design have been subtly brought over to the current S class.






And since I can't seem to find a rear shot of the concept, I will post the rear of a standard Maybach (the convertible in this case) as it looked similar to the concept car of 1997. I don't see any BMW 7er design traits on the current S class. I see Maybach concept design traits instead on the S class.

 

I change my mind.. I'll take the 604hp S65 AMG instead of the 518hp S63 AMG when I retire please

This vid has convinced me... Jesus Christ

S65 AMG v Ferrari F430
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kHXE...eature=related

 

Now this is what I call a biased post!


By the way, what do you guys mean with "harder to drive"? Last time I checked the S class handled better than the LS and offered the same comfort qualities, in some cases even better. Most reviews here have commented on the fact that when the LS lands on rough roads the suspension is noisy and nervous, which doesn't seem to be the case with the S class. I have not driven both cars (and probably never will) so I can't comment on this. I'm just going with that the magazines claim.

For instance in this review I found: http://autozeitung.de/online/index.php?render=78761



Sitzkomfort vorne = seat comfort front

Sitzkomfort hinten = seat comfort rear

Ergonomie = ergonomics

Innengeräusche = interior noises / cabin quietness

Geräuscheindruck = not sure what they are trying to imply with this since they already seem to have a similar criteria...

Klimatisierung = A/C efficiency

Federung leer = suspension empty

Federung beladen = suspension with weight

 

Funny, I was in my LS this morning, and saw 1 blk LS460, 1 Blk S550, and 1 blk 750 driving side by side in front of me.
I was thinking, If I were to get a new car, which one I would choose, clearly it's the LS460L.
It's all personal reference, I guess.

 

OK, thanks for pointing that out-I take my words back. So back in 97 that the maybach had the raised trunk. It's that Bangle got the credit/criticism

Well, here's the interior from previous posts. With that said, I won't comment again

 

Well I can't say I agree with everything you post. I actually drove a S600 with the AMG kit this past weekend for quite awhile (previous generation) and a few S550's at previous events. I do agree that the S-class in some regards is the benchmark in this class. It speaks volumes and is usually the first vehicle that comes to mind when someone says Mercedes. The S600 really made me forget all about the LS and in some areas I do feel that Lexus does have to step it up, but that doesnt mean it cant compete. There are some things that the LS lacks and some things that the S-class lacks. In the end its a matter of preference.


Having the ability to pick and choose what options in any combination imaginable is a major plus in my book. Its great that Lexus offers more options and powertrains among other things on the current LS. But IMO, they still have a little ways to go. My complaints from day one about Lexus was the fact that interior/exterior color combinations are limited and that certain wood trims were predetermined on what interior color you choose. Its the little things like that where the Germans still excel IMO. You can mix and match with a variety of color combinations/wood and metal trims. Designo packages, individualized color packages, the list is practically endless.

However, IMO because one design is better than the other doesnt necessarily mean that the entire car is superior. IMO, there has to be more than just style to sway my decision. I find the Bentley Flying Spur no more interesting to look at than the VW Phaeton it is based on, yet due to other qualities it is a very exclusive and sought after product.

And MB cant compete with the hybrid Lexus. It wasn't their goal to make another gas guzzling V12 model which Lexus states anyone can do. Not everyone can make a Hybrid vehicle though. I was expecting a little bit more out of the V8/hybrid engine, but I applaud them for doing it and taking the risk and proving that there is a market for 5,000lb hybrid luxury sedans. And once again, Lexus is proving them wrong. There were waiting lists for the 600hL while BMW is dropping their V12 and Mercedes is cutting production. Its clear to me that developing a hybrid option was more beneficial than adding a V12 that would not end up selling.

The MB V12 is a beast (DROOOOOLLLL). However, I did not find the V12 to be as smooth as many claim it to be. Cruising around town you can hear the turbos, the cooling fans etc. It didnt feel very luxurious. The exhaust is loud and loves to roar. For those that like that, its great ( I did) !! There is a level of insanity with the MB V12 engines. However, its not very serene or luxurious especially with the booming exhaust.

Cant say I like the design of the new S-class interior which is to reminiscent of the 7-series, but yes IMO the details are awesome!! Chrome switches and hardware, ambient lighting underneath the wood trim that wraps around the entire car among other things. While simple switches in the LS such as window, mirror controls could be located on lesser Toyota models.

The S600 I drove this past weekend was bank vault tight. It felt heavy and indestructible (though surveys will say otherwise). I fully understand now why some people love the S-class no matter what the competition offers. I get it now. Its a remarkable car.

 

I noticed this today when I closed the driver door on the Ls600h. I could hear the people in the room talking. I remember when I closed the doors on the LS430 it was almost silent. You could barely hear the outside noise.

 

sorry, but the last REAL s-class in my eyes was the 1999 s600, After that the s class didn't really have the same effect on my and still today the s63, i mean it is AWESOME, but why? if i want a luxury barge, i want a luxury barge, not a luxury barge i can send carving through the corners, just my opinion

 

Well said.

 

Well first, the difference between the the 600 and 460 AWD is about $25,000. That does include more features and of course the Hybrid powertrain, LED's, and the trick adjustable stabilizer bars which are three very expensive options at this time (and no I'm not saying that those options fully justify the price increase ).

But may I ask what makes the S600 command a $60,000 price increase if the only few upgrades you are receiving is a leather dashboard and a bigger engine (I do not think there are additional standard features, but I can be wrong.) ??

 

you remember wrong, period. i had the chance to do the exact same on ls430 and ls460 in the SAME room back to back. it's pretty much the same

 

Well I have driven both the ls- 460 and the S550 . Based on driving impressions the S550 is the better driving maching and I think lexus has "cheapened" their interior compared to the ls-430 and certainly the merc S550 . I find that lexus uses too much plastic in their dash where Mercedes uses aluminum . Now as far as reliability and warranty , lexus holds the best reliability record and I've talked to many lexus owners who are very happy with their service record . Unfortunetaly I've heard mixed feelings about the mercedes reliability from several owners . So it depends on what your priorities are . By the way I drive a chrysler 2005 300C AWD car which will be returned next june 09 off a lease and I'm considering a lexus IS-F .
B D HEMI

 

Okay here I am.

Now I've said in the "Prestige" thread in the LS forum, the S-class is still big daddy of this class. Nothing like saying "S-class". It is engineered well and is very imposing with this new SUV influenced styling. The exterior has grown on me tons but like most Benzs, without a AMG sport kit, the styling leaves me blah. It has SUV flares and a Bangle trunk. You go inside and its a BANGLE BMW interior. To this day I cannot believe Benz too the exact same layout.

Its startling. What is even more startling is people buy it without question.

I ask everyone this. The LS still gets flack for "copying" Benz. Yet here is a S-class that blatantly ripped off the 7 inside and out and it gets a pass on the internet and with reviews.

Talk about a double standard. If Lexus gave the LS a 7 ish dash, critics would scream like someone punched their mother. They already got on the LS rear being "7ish", which it does but its a lot less apparent than the 7.

Now in a twist of fate, the 7 series can be said to have taken LS cues. Funny isn't it.

Now my lil rant doesn't mean squat b/c the LS is best selling in class and has been for sometime, even as the price goes up. True the S-class starts at 85k but Benz has lease rates Lexus cannot match.

So its really a moot point, IMO. I will not sit here and say one car is just far superior than the other b/c that is 100% garbage. They are all equals for all intents and purposes, with PERSONAL PREFERENCE being the decision maker here.

This is not the 1990s when some cars were pretty awful and the leaders were clearly ahead. This class has SUPERB machinery, even if I don't 100% like one or the other.

 

My second part is people should truly appreciate what Lexus has done with the LS, not just continuing to be sold but the only force from Japan to be reckoned with. Its clear even today, Japanese and luxury still = no thanks instantly to many people.

Lets look at how the LS evolved, from a 35k car to 118k loaded. From a one size, one way LS to offering AWD/RWD, 2 wheelbases and 2 engine choices.

The LS is the grandest sedan Japan has ever created. Its NOT for everyone but its TRACK RECORD speaks for itself.

Look at how HARD the competition has it. They CANNOT crack this market.
A8-a superb vehicle, sells well in Europe b/c of offering smaller engines, sells extremely poorly in America
XJ- another superb vehicle, that doesn't sell well anywhere, even with a new diesel in Europe
Q45-a failure for 18 whole years and now discontinued. Simply undesirable new.
Acura-can't sell anything over 40k outside the MDX, let alone a flagship.
Lincoln-can't sell anything over 45k outside the Navigator
Volvo-can't sell a new S80 to anyone, let alone a flagship
Caddy-no true flagship, the STS/DTS blurs the line here, never have they been in a comparison with the LS/S/7.


When you see how many companies try/tried, well you have to look at the LS and think "wow, what Lexus has achieved is amazing".

The prestige market IS MAYBE THE HARDEST to crack. The LS has done it and continues to take Lexus to levels no one thought of back in 1989.

 

That point really stands out...barely 20 years in the lux-market and they are where they are is simply amazing!