newr

This simply means MB offers choices to their customers. A LOT of choices. They offer the kind of cars that not every car makers offer so if you want a certain kind of luxury cars... like, V12, supercharged, twin turbos, sedan, coupe, convertible, ect and ect.. There are only a few dealerships carry and Lexus is not one of them.

Byprodrive

iTrader: (1)

+ 1 for your entire post

Has it accured to anyone that actual buyers in this price range could care less about MPG making Hybrid options a huge hunk of useless weight.

IronCobra

Maybe it all comes down to personal preference. There arn't too many people driving a LS460, 600h, or 460L who can't aford one of the S models.

I personally think that the S class looks worse than the CLS class. I have thought the LS460 has looked beautiful since it came out! I think it looks far better than the S class.
But, the S class looks good too.

pagemaster

And this what I noticed between the two cars and is why I started this thread.

I think the 2004-2006 LS430 is best ever achievment on Lexus record. While I do like the original LS400 I think the greatest Lexus ever created was the LS430 for 04-06. I think the drag co of the LS430 was as low at .25 with the optional suspension.

The LS430 won the Car and Driver comparo of flagships in 2003, Motor Trend refered to it as the benchmark and Consumer Reporst loved it.

Now the LS460 finished dead last in the Car and Driver Comparo, Motor Trend no longer thinks its the benchmark...not sure what CR claims but I think it did do very well.

pagemaster

I would like to see Lexus move the LS way up upscale and in prestige and maybe move the GS into the pricepoint of the current LS. Perhaps even move the ES to a RWD Avalon sized Lexus with an option 4.3 v8. Now that would be nice!

dunnojack

that idea would be a failure.

it already sells badly. that would make more people turn to the germans

GS does not command that price. it is best in class at nothing

rominl

iTrader: (4)

true it'd be horrible idea to make gs that expensive, plain stupid

but gs best in class at nothing? guess you didn't read my reply to your post in 3gs forum

pagemaster

I am saying move it into that price point but make it a much much better car.

mmarshall

How much more do you want the LS to move up? Hybrid versions are already well over 100K. The last one I looked in the showroom (no, I'm not buying one) was 117K.

pagemaster

I don't think the hybrid LS600h is worth the asking price. I think the interior is not as up to par as other $100k cars. I would like to see the LS move up to the $100k starting price and have the best interior material and design on the market.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Also the Mercedes R500 & R63AMG.. Something for everyone at the tri-star

DustinV

Automotive design, both exterior and interior wise, doesn't happen overnight. These things take years to be developed and perfected. I honestly don't think Mercedes copied the BMW 7er interior in that regard. More likely both companies designed these interiors based on market research feedback. People wanted something classy, yet ergonomically sound and this is how those interiors came about.

Yes, I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

DustinV

Smaller engines in Europe make more sense for these cars. In fact, most people who buy these cars in Europe buy the engine which suits their needs. Americans don't have a choice. They have to buy the thirsty V8 even though they will 90% of the time most likely never make use of the power. Think of all the fuel we could be saving if consumers had the choice of ordering the engine that would suit their needs. Some people want a V8 solely for prestige or bragging rights. Other consumers, however, would like to have a smaller engine available because of better gas mileage and because they realize they don't need the power. Europeans seem to understand this. Americans still think "luxury car = V8 at all costs". But why?


Adding smaller engines to a premium car in Europe will not automatically equal success. Jaguar has a very thin dealer network throughout Europe. The same goes for Lexus.

DustinV

Oh please, don't give me that.

I can read German and the review was pretty straightforward and downright honest. The LS received credit where credit was due. Click on the link and look at the other criteria where the LS received higher marks than the BMW or Mercedes.

There have been a number of European reviews from Germany, Britain and France which seem to comment on the fact that when the LS rides over rougher roads, the suspension doesn't fully impress. When a number of different reviews mention this, there's bound to be a reason behind it. I've never read about this in an American publication, almost as if they only drive it over smooth roads. I don't know, but this is an observation.

I'd be interested in reading a Japanese review of the LS vs the Europeans, honestly translated of course.

DustinV

First off, Mercedes doesn't market their V12 or AMG engines as environmentally friendly motors. Second, these are low volume models. Heck, Toyota does more damage to the environment with the amount of V8 Landcruisers they sell in the US and elsewhere than Mercedes does with their S600s etc. - literally (literally).

Lexus hybrids to me are 50% truth and 50% lies. Hybrids are efficient in the city, and that's basically it. Your general Lexus hybrid is overloaded with a heavy electric motor and heavy batteries. These things add weight and decrease the efficiency of the gasoline engine on certain roads or driving situations. I've never been fully convinced by Lexus hybrids. The Prius is the best hybrid by far at the moment, but the Lexus hybrids, to me, are nothing but overhyped marketing gimmicks. I've found that most people I talk to think hybrids are fuel-efficient. When I ask them why, they reply, "Because it's a hybrid."


The newest S class has been very reliable according to most consumer surveys. I recently found a UK Mercedes owners survey and the owners of the newest C, E and S classes were delighted with their cars.