MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I went to the Atlanta Art Festival this weekend where I noticed that Hyundai had a large exhibit set up with several Geneses to sit in and several more to drive. With so much talk about the car I wanted to take it for a test drive- for those of you who are familiar with the area, the drive was from Monroe to 10th, to Piedmont and back around to Monroe...so a pretty good course.

First thing I noticed is that when you see the car in person it really is better looking than in pictures. I had only seen a few of them quickly in passing, mostly in lighter colors, but the black Genesis is particularly attractive. It's a very understated design and honestly somewhat bland, but each part of the car goes nicely together though it is very derivative, especially in person. The rear end is very LS/5 series, the side profile is much like an Infiniti M or G, and the front is a mix between Mercedes and Lexus. Still good looking, none the less.

The car I drove (and thoroughly played with) was a Black Genesis 4.6 with all of the options. I sat in the front and rear before ever driving it, so here are my impressions:

1) Quite a bit bigger than a GS or 5 series with a nice bit of room in the back. The car is also quite wide so you can really get comfortable. Lots of open space and a nicely laid out cabin.
2) Wood accents were nicely placed and felt high quality
3) Leather felt a bit cheap. Lexus leather is super soft and supple, the leather in the Germans is a bit thicker and more coarse (I actually prefer that) but the leather in this Genesis felt very thin and a little more like vinyl than what I was expecting. It did not have the smooth and supple texture of Lexus leather...more like the leather in the Camry that just doesn't have the grain and substance in your hand. Best thing I wold compare it to is BMW's "leatherette". It just felt more "manufactured" than it did natural.
4. Some of the chrome accents looked as though they had not been cleanly broken away from their molds in the manufacturing process, as you could see uneven edges and if you crouch on your knees (outside the car) and look straight at the door panel, you can see what I am talking about very easily, as there is a bit of a gap between the accents and the plastic that surrounds them.
5. The rear door panels felt particularly flimsy...not unlike the new Camry. The plastic used on these doors does not feel as thick or high quality as the competition or even the driver and front passenger doors. If you push on the door panel, there is quite a bit of travel and you can hear the plastic popping when you do so.
6. Dashboard is nicely laid out with a clean and simple design.
7. Gauges actually looked a bit cheap. It's clear that they tried to copy the Lexus electroluminescent gauge, but their interpretation came out rather weak as you can easily see the unfinished area behind the two largest dials which are placed at the very front of the cluster. Behind them is the information readout screen, so the area between the dials and the screen is quite visible. The numbers aren't as crisply cut or nicely placed either.
8. Nice lighting all around
9. Great Lexicon sound system

Past that I took the car out for a test drive, so here are my thoughts on that:

1. Floats and glides over the road effortlessly...very Lexus like in this respect.
2. Great ride quality with an incredibly quiet cabin and very muted engine and road noise (which I love).
3. 6AT seemed well matched for the engine, but I really didn't have that much experience with it.
4. The on-center and low speed steering feel and response is far better than the awful, artificial system that Lexus has in the GS. It's not athletic or particularly communicative like the 5 series, but it feels more natural than the GS which feels completely dead on center, and then like it's working against you when you turn the wheel.
5. The V8 was nice but overall I wasn't really impressed with the acceleration for having 375hp. When I pulled out onto Piedmont Road I floored it and the car moves quickly, but I wouldn't say necessarily fast for it's size and power rating. This could be partly because the cabin is so quiet, but the 5 Series and even GS 460 give you more of a "seat of your pants" feeling and throw your head back with a jolt.
6. Brakes work very well
7. Handling is predictable, but not particularly confidence inspiring.

Overall....I would say the Genesis is a "good" car, and one that I would likely recommend to those looking at the ES, Avalon, 300, and other cars of that nature. I came away with positive impressions, but was not necessarily "wowed". The chrome trim needs work, I didn't really care for the leather texture or feel, and the engine feels a tad anemic for it's power rating, but overall the Genesis is a well thought out, decently well put together, and rationally priced car. For what it offers I think the car is priced fairly...it's a cut above the Avalon and 300, but a cut below the 5 Series, GS, and E class. I'd say that the best competitor would be the ES 350 which IMO, has a similar demeanor, options and technology, size, and price. I guess that in a nutshell, the Genesis is a solid effort for "entry level luxury".

carguy101

I'm curious why you felt that it was a cut below the GS. Was that mainly because some of the interior bits/surfaces didn't measure up?

Because from your review I gathered that the Genesis was:

Just as quiet, if not quieter, than the GS
Had a ride quality similar to the Lexus
Had better steering than the GS
Felt roomier

carguy101

BTW, Lexus leather is the best. No one else comes close, in my opinion.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

The GS is more car, IMO, because it has a significantly better designed and higher quality interior, a more distinguished exterior, more technology, more advanced powertrains that return better gas mileage, and drives a bit better. That last part is a bit of a mixed bag though, because as much as I hate the steering in the GS, the car moves, corners, and brakes nicely and a bit firmer and sportier than the Genesis. The Hyundai is more predictable and has more natural steering, but feels a tad looser and less aggressive than the GS.

Now space and design are not really quantifiable things in terms of dollars, so those are just my preferences. The Genesis has a bigger interior which is nice. I'm single so the rear seats are for the most part useless to me, but they are still a nice feature none the less. I also would rather drive a car with a more distinguished and (IMO) attractive design, than one that looks like a mix of several other cars and comes out looking rather bland in the end.

mmarshall

Agreed. Lexus and Jaguar clearly have the slickest, softest leather.






Thanks for the write-up, MPLexus301. Nice job.

I reviewed a Genesis 3.8 several weeks ago. It's interesting that you had complaints with the 4.6 interior....chrome trim, gaps, panel thickness, gauge design, etc..... I fould all of that superb in the one I drove. The only really cheap-feeling part was the plastic-like hood.

WE also differ a little on the ride quality. You found it rather soft.....I found it rather stiff (for a luxury sedan). I guess that is just how tastes differ.

I can't comment on the 4.6 drive train, of course. It wasn't available at the time (still won't be in my area till next month). I'll take you at your word, however, that it felt less than 375 HP normally would..........but remember that with acceleration, torque is more important than HP. In general, HP determines your top speed, torque your acceleration. The 4.6 has less torque than HP....333 ft-lbs. @ 4500 RPM. How the HP and torque curves run (and at what RPM the sngine produces the maximum of each) also determines throttle response.

One thing about the Genesis that is different......and very classy......is the wide swath of brownish leather across the whole dash where most cars have plastic, wood, or alumnium. I'm assuming your car had it. What did you think of it?.........I thought it was one of the car's nicest features.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

See I like Lexus leather, but I actually prefer the thicker and more coarse leather that Mercedes and BMW typically use . That in the Genesis just felt...cheaper. Which I guess is fine because the car is indeed cheaper than it's rivals.

With so much praise on the interior from most reviews, I was sort of puzzled when I found my Genesis to be less than stellar. I thought that my car may have been a beat up prototype, but it only had 1,400 miles on it when I drove it so there was really no long term abuse that the car had been exposed to.

I also sat in two of the V6 models and one other V8 and found that the gauges and chrome trim in all four was equally similar. The trim issue is a hard one to really describe, but the exposed part looks fine...if you are sitting in the seat looking (somewhat) down at where trim is placed. Looking at it straight on though, you can see the edges that are just not cleanly cut or shaven. It's a minor detail, but when you advertise yourself as a Lexus competitor...you better be able to deliver on interior details. 95% of customers will not notice this and won't care, but I am probably the king dash-stroker (thus my choice of my current car over some others I was considering) and will examine, touch, rub, push on, and squeeze everything inside a car to get an idea for overall execution.

My comments on ride quality...I drive a car with low profile summer Michelins (45 series, to be exact) so anything will feel smoother to me . The GS is a bit more taut and poised than the Genesis (that I drove), I would say. The Hyundai is very smooth and wallows somewhat here and there. The GS has been a little rougher in my experience, especially over broken pavement...but it is a bit sportier.

I know how HP and Torque work, and the differences between them, but a GS 460 with "only" 342hp and 339 lb-ft of torque, or a 545i (havent driven 550i) with 345hp will quickly toss your head back and leave you pinned there with a bit more force than the Genesis did for me. I had a test drive rep in the car with me, so maybe it was the added weight? Not sure. The car felt quick...but not significantly quicker than it's two closest competitors that make less power.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I actually do not like the way that Hyundai has laid out the colors on the interior (and the car I drove did have the colors you're describing). I wish the brown had been more BROWN because honestly, it almost looks like plum in person. I love brown leather, but the plumish color matched with black just looked a little tacky to me.

I am also one who prefers a monochromatic dash, carpet, and ceiling with a different colored seating surface that matches the inserts on the doors (if you want to have two colors on the interior). The Genesis has black and "plum" all over the dash and doors whereas I prefer it laid out differently. I liked the all black interior much more.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Is Lexus leather the best? I heard a bunch of SC300/400 guys complaining that it's pretty much crap. My 97's black leather was in pretty crappy condition when I got it and most of em I've been in weren't much nicer.

dunnojack

cuz the previous owner didn't take care of it.

leather needs a lot of tender loving care.

and the leather 10 years ago was much worse than that of today

mmarshall

Well, it may or may not outlast the leather in some other makes, but when it is new, Lexus leather looks and feels about as slick and plush as it comes. Only Jaguar and some Infinitis can equal it for plushness, short of the Rolls-Royce-Maybach class, of course.

UDel

I am not very impressed by Lexus leather especially with the feel. The leather in my GS is pretty hard, waxy, and rough in many areas and disappointing and no matter how much I condition it, it pretty much stays the same. My parents Acura CL and 99TL had much softer suppler nicer leather. I do remember sitting in a LS430 with some pretty nice soft leather, I think it might have been a optional aniline leather. My parents just got a 08TL and the leather is very nice but it has more grain in the texture and is not as soft or smooth as the CL and 99TL, I noticed the 3rd Gen Lexus IS and GS had a similar grainier feel as the 08 TL. The Acura RL had very nice leather when I test drove it. The 09TL has a milano leather option which is high quality soft leather. Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, and Masserati had the nicest, softest, most supple aromic leather I have ever felt and smelled, the Rolls Royce Phanton was probably the nicest. The worst car leather I have ever seen and felt was from Pontiac vehicles, especially the Grand Prix my uncle had but it was so bad I doubt it was even real leather even though it said it was real.

mmarshall

How old is the leather in your GS? Among brand-new cars, Lexus really puts some nice stuff in there. The Brits, as you note, especially Jaguar and RR, have done superb leather for many years. I agree that Pontiac puts in some real interior junk, although the G8 and GTO are exceptions (Dodge/Chysler, in some ways, is even worse).

UDel

Its a 2001 GS430 with a black leather interior. The leather to me is just disappointing with more a waxy feeling and look then the soft supple feel leather should have. It is not terrible but I have been in many cars with nicer leather including my parents 03 Acura CL and 99 TL. It feels a little softer in the summer but in the winter it is really dissapointing and feels way to hard and waxy. I have read several posts with people disappointed with the 2nd Gen GS leather especially when trying to condition and soften it.

dunnojack

i know what you're talking about.

the 2002 ES was the same way. the back isn't as bad. but the seating surface feels thick and hard. like it's baked.

tuan92129

Lexus has used different grades of leather over the years, and yes, the leather from the 03 es300 does feel 'waxy', but we've had this car brand new, and i can tell you the leather was very soft and supple in both the front and rear seats. All leather will harden, and the top coat will become 'polished' with use, and end up cracking and hardening.
I've noticed that the newer models 06 and up use a different type of leather compared to before.
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Also, you basically get for what you pay for...so I think the genesis lacks some engineering and quality compared to mercedes/lexus