View Poll Results: How do you feel that the BMW 1 Series has impacted the company's brand image
I feel that it has strongly impacted BMW's brand image in a negative manner
2
3.28%
I feel that it has somewhat impacted BMW's brand image in a negative manner
12
19.67%
I feel that it has neither had a positive nor negative effect on BMW's brand image
26
42.62%
I feel that it has somewhat impacted BMW's brand image in a positive manner
18
29.51%
I feel that it has strongly impacted BMW's brand image in a positive manner
3
4.92%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll
Do you think that the 1 Series has affected BMWs brand image in the US?
09-17-08, 08:50 PM
#16
IMO, bringing over the 4 cylinder cars would have been a better idea in this economy. We could still keep the 135i and 128i, but a 4 cylinder model below them both would have created an interesting, less expensive, and fuel efficient car. I think that over time the luster of the 1 series will wear off as people will realize that it's not significantly less expensive than the better looking, more luxurious, more established 3 series.
Positioning the car as a fun to drive and fuel conscious compact would have made more sense to me. Additionally...the price ought to be about 4K cheaper across the line (if not more on some models)... I guess the pricing is the one thing that just makes this car so perplexing to me. It LOOKS like an economy car inside and out, performs like a boxster, and nips on the heels of it's own big brother in terms of price. For it's size, it's also not particularly fuel efficient, but it's not bad either. I wonder if the notion of a baby bimmer will attract buyers expecting fuel frugality (as is expected in almost every car of this size) only to find that it drinks premium fuel and returns 22-24MPG. All around the positioning of the car just doesn't make sense to me.
It's not as good as the 3 Series but costs almost as much, but it's also not particularly inexpensive or fuel efficient either, as most small cars are.
09-17-08, 09:05 PM
#17
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Having had 5 since Y2k, 4 new and 1 old, I think the thing that polarizes everyone first is the styling of it. It IS different, as all the models that Chris Bangle, (aka Mr. Flame-Surfacing), designed. Now, he is out of that job, and the '09 7 Series looks alot more straight and flat sides. I have only seen this in my latest Roundel mag., so cant attest to its looks in real life. They built the 1 Series in homage to the 2002 I believe, and that's why it sits so high. I drove both a 135 and a 335, and the 135 was quicker because it was lighter. I ended up liking the 335 Coupe more though, but that is just my take. There is a huge 1Series following, mostly younger people, and thats good. BMW knew it was time to reduce the churn and bring in new customers. The cries from the Bimmer crowd regarding the change in styles, well, have always been there with every change. I got in when the E46 platform was going and the guys who had an earlier version hated it too.
Eventually, everyone calms down, gets back to work, and its all good again.
I believe I read that they ARE bringing in some diesels in 2010 (?) across all or most of the lines already out, since these are sold that way in other countries, so that will help, They are losing tons of money as is anyone else with plants in the US, and have an awesome facility in Greensboro I believe now, that is almost totally green, using recycled everything and employing thousands of people.
All said, this privately held company (the Quandt family), offer some of the best driving experiences first of any of the major car manufacturers, AND sponsor a Formula-1 team, that is pretty darn competitive this year. Anyone that has permanent space at the Nurburgring for testing, their own private test track, and who knows what else, is really serious and good at what they do, otherwise, why keep doing it? And we are all glad to see that Toyota has been getting better and better in F-1 this year too! If you ever get to meet them, they are all totally committed gearheads from Germany, who value the driving experience first, and all the amneties we crave second.
Nothing short of a suprise financial meltdown will hurt them I believe.
As long as people enjoy the "driving" part of the automobile more than all the other stuff, Bimmer will be out there in front.
Yes, I have a Lexus, an '08 IS350.
DF
08' IS350, '03 540iT M5 equipped, '05 RL, '97 540i
Gone - '01 3 Series, '01 X5, '02 Z3 M Coupe
Eventually, everyone calms down, gets back to work, and its all good again.
I believe I read that they ARE bringing in some diesels in 2010 (?) across all or most of the lines already out, since these are sold that way in other countries, so that will help, They are losing tons of money as is anyone else with plants in the US, and have an awesome facility in Greensboro I believe now, that is almost totally green, using recycled everything and employing thousands of people.
All said, this privately held company (the Quandt family), offer some of the best driving experiences first of any of the major car manufacturers, AND sponsor a Formula-1 team, that is pretty darn competitive this year. Anyone that has permanent space at the Nurburgring for testing, their own private test track, and who knows what else, is really serious and good at what they do, otherwise, why keep doing it? And we are all glad to see that Toyota has been getting better and better in F-1 this year too! If you ever get to meet them, they are all totally committed gearheads from Germany, who value the driving experience first, and all the amneties we crave second.
Nothing short of a suprise financial meltdown will hurt them I believe.
As long as people enjoy the "driving" part of the automobile more than all the other stuff, Bimmer will be out there in front.
Yes, I have a Lexus, an '08 IS350.
DF
08' IS350, '03 540iT M5 equipped, '05 RL, '97 540i
Gone - '01 3 Series, '01 X5, '02 Z3 M Coupe
09-18-08, 01:10 AM
#18
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I am between cars right now after selling my IS350, and the 135i is very high on my list of cars I am planning to buy next. However, the range of the cars I have in mind is very large and unusual so to speak - as it includes the Mazdaspeed3, Evo X, 135i, 335i and even the new M3. I considered myself quite indecisive and there's a good chance my next car hasn't even entered my mind right now (had the same situation before I bought the IS 2 years ago).
As for the 135i, I wasn't too fond of it when they revealed its design as the front looks awkward but the back is alright IMO. Also, as others already mentioned - a 135i can be easily equipped to the same price as 335i sedans and coupes so it is not exactly the BMW to get for those on a tight budget. I compared the 135i to its bigger brother the 335i coupe, as many have, and found out that there is really only a $6k difference between each when similar equipped. Most will obviously go for the 335i as it's better looking, 3 series are the benchmark of luxury entry cars and will not carry the stigma of the being cheapest model of BMW that is the 1 series.
However, as I did more research when the 135i was actually on the roads and found out that I personally prefers it over the 335i coupe. I like its thick steering wheel w/ the sport package (exactly the same as the M3), better brakes, lighter weight and the fact that BMW sells 11k-12k 1 series annually to about 10k+ 3 series monthly so they will be less seen on the road. I also plan to track the car and just felt that the 335i might be more of a Grand Touring coupe for daily driving.
All in all, I would categorize the 1 series as a niche car for the BMW brand - they know certain buyers prefer the smaller size and weight to what the 3 series have grown to today compared to the 2002 and E30 3 series. They do not expect a high volume of 1 series being sold nor do they want to penetrate the sub-$30k car market by selling BMWs in the mid $20k price range to increase total sales.
As for the 135i, I wasn't too fond of it when they revealed its design as the front looks awkward but the back is alright IMO. Also, as others already mentioned - a 135i can be easily equipped to the same price as 335i sedans and coupes so it is not exactly the BMW to get for those on a tight budget. I compared the 135i to its bigger brother the 335i coupe, as many have, and found out that there is really only a $6k difference between each when similar equipped. Most will obviously go for the 335i as it's better looking, 3 series are the benchmark of luxury entry cars and will not carry the stigma of the being cheapest model of BMW that is the 1 series.
However, as I did more research when the 135i was actually on the roads and found out that I personally prefers it over the 335i coupe. I like its thick steering wheel w/ the sport package (exactly the same as the M3), better brakes, lighter weight and the fact that BMW sells 11k-12k 1 series annually to about 10k+ 3 series monthly so they will be less seen on the road. I also plan to track the car and just felt that the 335i might be more of a Grand Touring coupe for daily driving.
All in all, I would categorize the 1 series as a niche car for the BMW brand - they know certain buyers prefer the smaller size and weight to what the 3 series have grown to today compared to the 2002 and E30 3 series. They do not expect a high volume of 1 series being sold nor do they want to penetrate the sub-$30k car market by selling BMWs in the mid $20k price range to increase total sales.
Last edited by DrShoe; 09-18-08 at 01:14 AM.
09-18-08, 03:43 AM
#19
In some ways, I wonder if that really was a good idea. First I guess it would be necessary to know what BMW's prime objective was with bringing the 1 series here- Attract new buyers? Capture more market share? A move towards the forthcoming CAFE standards?
IMO, bringing over the 4 cylinder cars would have been a better idea in this economy. We could still keep the 135i and 128i, but a 4 cylinder model below them both would have created an interesting, less expensive, and fuel efficient car. I think that over time the luster of the 1 series will wear off as people will realize that it's not significantly less expensive than the better looking, more luxurious, more established 3 series.
Positioning the car as a fun to drive and fuel conscious compact would have made more sense to me. Additionally...the price ought to be about 4K cheaper across the line (if not more on some models)... I guess the pricing is the one thing that just makes this car so perplexing to me. It LOOKS like an economy car inside and out, performs like a boxster, and nips on the heels of it's own big brother in terms of price. For it's size, it's also not particularly fuel efficient, but it's not bad either. I wonder if the notion of a baby bimmer will attract buyers expecting fuel frugality (as is expected in almost every car of this size) only to find that it drinks premium fuel and returns 22-24MPG. All around the positioning of the car just doesn't make sense to me.
It's not as good as the 3 Series but costs almost as much, but it's also not particularly inexpensive or fuel efficient either, as most small cars are.
IMO, bringing over the 4 cylinder cars would have been a better idea in this economy. We could still keep the 135i and 128i, but a 4 cylinder model below them both would have created an interesting, less expensive, and fuel efficient car. I think that over time the luster of the 1 series will wear off as people will realize that it's not significantly less expensive than the better looking, more luxurious, more established 3 series.
Positioning the car as a fun to drive and fuel conscious compact would have made more sense to me. Additionally...the price ought to be about 4K cheaper across the line (if not more on some models)... I guess the pricing is the one thing that just makes this car so perplexing to me. It LOOKS like an economy car inside and out, performs like a boxster, and nips on the heels of it's own big brother in terms of price. For it's size, it's also not particularly fuel efficient, but it's not bad either. I wonder if the notion of a baby bimmer will attract buyers expecting fuel frugality (as is expected in almost every car of this size) only to find that it drinks premium fuel and returns 22-24MPG. All around the positioning of the car just doesn't make sense to me.
It's not as good as the 3 Series but costs almost as much, but it's also not particularly inexpensive or fuel efficient either, as most small cars are.
Seriously, experience the car first hand for yourself and from those who are in the market for such a car. Marketing 101..
My 6'4 body fits slides just fine behind the wheel of a 135 with room to spare.
09-18-08, 07:02 AM
#20
So much misinformation in this post it is not even funny. The 1 is not fuel efficient? In your other post you mentioned that the 1 series is the size of a Corolla? It is not...
Seriously, experience the car first hand for yourself and from those who are in the market for such a car. Marketing 101..
My 6'4 body fits slides just fine behind the wheel of a 135 with room to spare.
Seriously, experience the car first hand for yourself and from those who are in the market for such a car. Marketing 101..
My 6'4 body fits slides just fine behind the wheel of a 135 with room to spare.
The 1 series isn't particularly fuel efficient for what someone might expect in a car that size. 22-25mpg in combined driving is hardly "good" for something the size of a Civic or Corolla. And yes, it is roughly the size of a Corolla, Civic, tC, etc. A few inches here and there, but roughly the same size. I'm glad you fit so well inside the 1...probably because of the awkwardly tall greenhouse
Not sure what your picture is trying to prove?
09-18-08, 07:29 AM
#21
Lexus Champion
i'd be more impressed if they brought the 4 cyl. turbo diesel. but that's just me obviously, being a TD fan. only brand snobs who know nothing about cars would care if bmw offered a "cheap" car here witha 4 cyl. diesel. of course those people also don't know that in europe, all their favorite expensive german brands make economy cars as well, except with the same quality as their expensive models. sure, they cost less, but they're not "cheap".
true enthusiasts appreciate anything cool, and TD engines are cool with their big torque and mpg numbers. if it's not enough, a simple ecu flash will really bring out some torque and even more mileage.
so really, i dont' think it's really done much for the image one way or another. to me it's still a kind of expensive car that i wouldn't buy but many people would. i'd buy a 4 cyl TD though.
true enthusiasts appreciate anything cool, and TD engines are cool with their big torque and mpg numbers. if it's not enough, a simple ecu flash will really bring out some torque and even more mileage.
so really, i dont' think it's really done much for the image one way or another. to me it's still a kind of expensive car that i wouldn't buy but many people would. i'd buy a 4 cyl TD though.
09-18-08, 10:43 AM
#22
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That fact makes me see both sides of the 1 series debate. On one hand, it's probably the most pure drivers car that the company currently builds and signifies a return to their roots. On the flipside, it's a car that offers features that can be had on a Corolla, is similar in size, but costs almost four times as much in some configurations. Yes, there are the engines and RWD layout that play a huge part of that, but it's hard to ignore the economy car dimensions, gimmicky styling, and low-rent interior. Additionally, the vast majority doesn't know or care about the difference between FWD and RWD, and might take the 1 series as an economy car based on size and dimensions. Taking it for an economy car would be a bit of a dig for the BMW brand..
My thought is that while the 1 series is a great car for BMW...I really don't know if I think it will ultimately be good for the BMW brand here in the US. As someone else mentioned, the car is already being laughed at by several people regardless of it's performance credentials. In the minds of American consumers, "BMW" means premium quality, design, features, and often times...size. The 1 series turns all of those notions on their head for the sake of being fun to drive. My belief is that most Americans see BMW as a premium brand before they necessarily see them as the choice for driving enthusiasts, which makes me think that the 1 series will be ridiculed by most but cherished by the true BMW fans. Problem with that is that the BMW fans aren't the majority of the car buying public...who might perceive the car as desperate..
I like the 1 series and I respect the car for what it can do, but not much else. Every time I see one, it's hard to not laugh a little at the awkward proportions and styling, and the price you know it commands relative to it's size and feature content. A great car to drive...but not much else. Unfortunately, the majority of the American public doesn't buy drivers cars. I am not implying that it won't sell, but I think that the 1 series as a whole, might be received as desperate in the minds of American consumers who are so different from those in Europe.
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Last edited by FKL; 09-18-08 at 10:46 AM.
09-18-08, 11:36 AM
#23
What are you talking about? Yes, the car offers features that can be had on a Corolla - Like a navigation system and power windows? I mean, what? I know, I know, forget about an iDrive system, rain sensing wipers, Xenon headlights, memory heated power seats, smartkey, Logic 7 sound systems and every other luxury feature that is available on the 1-series. I have no idea what you are trying to say - at all. Gimmicky styling is your opinion, soley. For you to be calling the interior low-rent makes me think that you haven't ever even sat (let alone drove) the car. The interior of BMWs is always stark and businesslike, but there is nothing "cheap" about it. And again, it's your opinion that the "vast majority" don't care about RWD. Until you have sold BMWs you have absolutely no footing to make a sweeping generalization like that. Again, what are yout talking about? I am lost in the rambling..
I would hardly consider iDrive an attractive feature either.
Gimmicky styling is certainly my opinion, and additionally it is shared by much of the automotive press and community. Again, just my opinion, but don't make it sound like I'm radical for thinking so because there are countless reviews and commentary that echo those statements.
I have sat in every variant of the 1 series that's available in the North American market. The coupe, the convertible, with the M upgrades, without, etc. Interiors have never been considered a BMW strong suit but most are pretty nice. The 1 series is an absolute joke and I can't believe that you're trying to defend it. I might venture to say that it's the worst interior over 40 grand...its cold, sparse, and looks tremendously down market. Again...these are opinions but there is plenty of commentary that agrees.
You think the vast amount of the car buying public is knowledgable on the advantages of RWD over FWD and actually cares? Not sure if you are aware, but there are 1.3 million CamCordTimas sold every year... the ES 350 and TL are two of the top selling models in their class which is primarily RWD. Chargers and 300s are similarly priced to Camrys and Accords but sell in mere fractions to the FWD competitors.
Spare me the nonsense. Where do you get off calling the car "desperate"? The BMW is a premium brand, the 1-Series IS a premium car, with premium prices and premium levels of fit and finish. I am seriously wondering what world you're living in. You've obviously completely missed the point of this car
Alright, so it's obvious that you've never sat in or drove a 1-Series, but love to treat your own opinion as fact. In fact, it IS hard for me to laugh at the styling of this car. Again, you've completely missed the point of this car. I doubt you had any "assignment" on this. You just wanted to stir up a nice argument to entertain yourself.
Lastly, watch it with the personal attacks and calm down. We're talking about cars and you have no person to be so caustic and accuse me of lying. Chill.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 09-18-08 at 11:45 AM.
09-18-08, 11:45 AM
#24
Nope...haven't driven it, but I've also never said that it isn't a wonderful drivers car. Until I drive one I'll simply agree with the general conclusion of most publications that it's a blast to drive. However, I don't need to drive it to derive that its got a low rent interior, is somewhat overpriced, and awkward looking.
Thanks for sharing..
09-18-08, 12:06 PM
#25
I HAVE sat in the car several times (autoshows), and HAVE seen them several times around the city. I never implied that I have driven the car and never made critical comments about how it drives.
09-18-08, 01:27 PM
#26
I haven't said anything critical about how the 1 drives because I don't have any first hand experience driving it...so could I say something bad? I am more apt to believe the positive comments from those that have driven the car than to lie and form my own. That's only being fair.
I HAVE sat in the car several times (autoshows), and HAVE seen them several times around the city. I never implied that I have driven the car and never made critical comments about how it drives.
I HAVE sat in the car several times (autoshows), and HAVE seen them several times around the city. I never implied that I have driven the car and never made critical comments about how it drives.
09-18-08, 02:11 PM
#27
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I think we have to take ALL reviews and analyze merits of a car, no matter if you have driven it or not. There is no one here or anywhere that is unbiased 100%. Most people have "heard" about the vehicle they will drive.
Both sides here are stating their OPINIONS on this car. Personally I have always had a lil sweet spot for this car, even though a "1 series" has as much panache as Sean John clothing. True the price is high but it still leaves me kind of blah.
In person, I thought the car started to look better and better. In real life pics, I think it actually looks good and better than the 3 series. The interior is nothing to write home about but I don't really expect a great interior.
Again, BMW was smart, bringing us only coupes and 6 cylinder 128s and 135s with M sport packages, leaving the diesels and hatches and 4 cylinders at home in Germany.
My opinion, I am a fan of this car, quite the sleeper.
09-18-08, 06:11 PM
#28
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Gimmicky styling is certainly my opinion, and additionally it is shared by much of the automotive press and community. Again, just my opinion, but don't make it sound like I'm radical for thinking so because there are countless reviews and commentary that echo those statements.
I have sat in every variant of the 1 series that's available in the North American market. The coupe, the convertible, with the M upgrades, without, etc. Interiors have never been considered a BMW strong suit but most are pretty nice. The 1 series is an absolute joke and I can't believe that you're trying to defend it. I might venture to say that it's the worst interior over 40 grand...its cold, sparse, and looks tremendously down market. Again...these are opinions but there is plenty of commentary that agrees.
Originally Posted by Detroit News
"Overall, the cockpit is comfortable and sporty. It holds you firmly in place and inspires you to speed up. 'Honest officer, my six-way adjustable seats covered in Boston leather and firm bolsters made me go fast.'"
Originally Posted by New Car Test Drive
"Anyone familiar with the interior layout of the current 3 Series would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the BMW 135i and the much larger, more expensive 335i. Just about everything inside is in the same location and looks and operates the same way."
Originally Posted by The Car Connection
"Swing open a door and you'll notice the bulk of the dashboard, center console, front seats, most of the door trims, and the whole driving environment come straight from the 3-Series, so they look beautiful and work wonderfully well."
Originally Posted by Europeancarweb
Despite its entry-level status, the 135's interior is telling of its typical Bavarian build quality. The layout is similar to that in the 3 Series, with no corners cut according to material quality, fit or finish. The 1 Series is definitely not a stripped-out BMW, just in case you were worried.
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
The 135i's interior and ride quality first rate and on par with its stablemates, though space is definitely at a premium.
Originally Posted by Next Autos
"...it's worth noting that the silvery swatches and the feel of the BMW interior are excellent."
"The BMW's interior is excellent."
""we concluded that the 135i presents a vision of premium..."
You think the vast amount of the car buying public is knowledgable on the advantages of RWD over FWD and actually cares? Not sure if you are aware, but there are 1.3 million CamCordTimas sold every year... the ES 350 and TL are two of the top selling models in their class which is primarily RWD. Chargers and 300s are similarly priced to Camrys and Accords but sell in mere fractions to the FWD competitors.
Perhaps you shouldn't make such hasty generalizations and should reread my post. I respect the 1 series for being a fun and unique small drivers car...I just don't think its a stretch to think that the American public will look at the size and price of the car and think, "Who the hell...?" Just because there is a BMW roundel on the hood doesn't qualify it as a luxury automobile, but thanks for the BMW fanboy-like remarks insinuating as much.
Last edited by FKL; 09-18-08 at 06:15 PM.
09-18-08, 09:51 PM
#30
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Perhaps you should re-read some of the competely offbase and asinine comments you made in your essay on the previous page and see how ridiculous some of your "claims" really are. The BMW 1-Series is a premium luxury coupe with premium prices, a premium interior, and premium driving dynamics. You are the only one questioning that. Leave it to the coolaid drinker to get off calling me a BMW fanboy. I don't even own a BMW, I have a Lexus. Get your facts strait and come back next time, hopefully with a less attitude and bias. Thanks.
Off topic, its always funny to me to see people call others drinking kool aid when they drink it too, just another flavor.
MP, I am going to ask to reply but NOT get personal.