LexFather

Actually Lee you are helping This thread was not about MPG concern, it was about looking at the EPA results and comparing the difference.

Looking at the examples I stated, Acura MPG is average at best which is surprising as you would THINK they at least had that advantage.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

The RL weighs 200lbs more than the GS350 AWD with it's horrible AWD system. Still the GS350AWD is listed at 25mpg-not a great number itself and to call the GS350 AWD is really pushing it as far as AWD vehicles are concerned. It is that bad. Gears are not the only issue here. There is also the weight and the fact that the RL has a much more complicated drive system with electro magnetic clutches vs the simplistic GS AWD system. This places additional drag on the drivetrain thus reducing MPG. I am not sure what the MPG is on the new TL AWD but it is probably equally impacted as well.

Take a 2009 ES350 which is only FWD, only 27mpg. One would expect well over 30. IS250AWD which only has a paltry 204hp is listed at only 26mpg. It goes on and on and not just Acura and Lexus. AWD creates additional drag and drains MPG further. As Acura has one of if not the most advanced AWD system available (certainly better than Lexus) the lower numbers are understandable. A good trade off for me.
Also keep in mind that many still laugh at the LS and GS hyrbids though I happen to like the GS450.

Vladi

When you're mentioning Acura (and MPG) I had a chance to be driven in new TL five days ago. Finally another Acura besides RL that feels like it belongs in luxury class. Awesome car! Materials inside the cabin seem and feel very rich, some technology on board is not even present on some flagship sedans, 19' rims and stance look really good, etc.
Ride is very Audish, plushy but kind of tight not floaty.
Anyway I got to play with it inside and observed economy is 16mpg but that doesn't mean a thing since car only had 27 miles on it

LexFather

How on earth does the GS 350 have a "horrible" system? Its on par with everything else and it is 30/70 biased. It may not have SH or ATESSA but its very capable.

Only 27MPG, that is among the highest for a 6 cylinder. IS 250 AWD has only 204hp, it is also a 6 cylinder, not a cute 4 cylinder.

SH-AWD is in my opinon and others possibly the best AWD system around, it still is 70/30 FWD biased and unless you are pushing the car hard, you never exploit its SH advantage. Hopefully when its put in the next NSX, people can truly see its worth.

Big 3.7 V-6s based on 10 year old design and old 5 speed autos don't help MPG any.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Have to agree, again, an Acura was the last car I thought I would buy. Looked at Lexus of course and the GS was not what I was looking for. Far departure from the gen II GS. Looked at BMW, Audi, Benz (snob dealerships), Infiniti, etc.. The RL was the most complete car for what I needed/wanted. It could use an extra 50 ponies (so could most Lexus's) but I'm addressing that.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Actually you never feel the 70/30 at all while driving plus it it completely variable whereas the GS system is not. When punched the RL switches/changes constantly depending on the drivers input and road conditions. You really should drive the cars and get a real feel.
Also, I use the SHAWD all of the time. The GS system is a decade old system that Lexus tossed into a fine car and tossed a badge on the rear. SHAWD ( a ridiculous name though fitting) is always working and that is the beauty. The car has a neat center gauge which displays all 4 wheels that displays the torque transfer. It is nice to see while cutting hard corners (though I pay attention to the road). The car even in stock form hugs corners that is scary to some. The fee to pay along with lower mpg.

spwolf

eh, AWD system in GS is not decade old... it uses completly newly developed torsen central differential. It works quite well... I never had any issues with it whatsoever, it is pretty wonderful even if not full of acronyms. It never loses traction, and I have had made some mistakes in bad weather than would cost me (at least) my vehicle if not something else.

But honestly, both systems are stone age in todays world. I suspect future luxury vehicles will have superior on demand systems for minimal mpg/drivetrain loss.

I am sure your RL is fine vehicle, dont pick on MINE because of it.

All joking aside, Acura is trully stuck with those 5 speed AT's. I am pretty sure they will change that (or not - Honda is now introducing 5 speed AT diesel to Europe, where all competition has 6 speed). It is easy way to improve gas mileage and everyone is doing it.

Heck, new Yaris with 1.33 engine in Europe will now come with 6 speed standard (which is crazy for affordable vehicle). I figure all manufacturers will move to 6 speeds soon enough (2-4 years, when new generations are introduced).

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, but the Lexus setup is based on a pretty old setup (nothing against the GS though). 30/70 to 50/50. That is it. It does have electronics to help it out but the basics is nothing new. The SHAWD system is the top dog at the moment followed by the Volvo system which implements the SHAWD setup using ABS to send power to the outer wheel whereas Acura uses magnetic clutches to power the outer wheel. Put another way, SHAWD is always working where other systems require a loss of traction to operate. Some Audi systems are actually FWD 100/0-85/15 before switching to 50/50. I won't even go into the AWD setup in our GX though we still love it. I still thoroughly like the GS350 , one of our favorite cars out there.

But, big but, I did not buy the RL solely for it's AWD setup. It was the total package. There was no car out there that we completely liked 100%.

Also, additional gears does not always equate to better MPG. Adding a 6sp to the SC430 only gave it 1 additional MPG. Just one. But it does drive better and is quicker mostly due to better electronics. But still, only 1 extra mpg. There are many other things at play than just gears. I actually believe that CVT will dominate in the years to come.

UDel

My dad just figured the mileage on their new 08TL and it averaged a little over 28mpg and that is only with some highway driving. It is rated at 26mpg highway so he was quite pleased that it gets well over its EPA ratings and will probably improve some once the engine is broken in more. It is a very fuel efficient car considering the power and performance. I tend to notice most Acuras/Hondas get a good deal better mileage then their EPA ratings. I am lucky with my GS430 to get 25mpg with strictly highway driving. My dad usually averages 29-30mpg with mixed driving and on the highway he averaged 33mpg when strictly highway driving for vacation with his 2003 Acura CL.

UDel

The GS awd is on the not recommended list in consumer reports so their has to be some kind of common issue with the drivetrain setup with the GS awd and how it functions that does not seem to be affecting the 2wd versions.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

I am not aware of any issues with the GS AWD setup. Could be just the price premium. Consumer Report is funny about those type of things. I can say that it is built better than the RL.

I average around 19 with my SC430 and 23+ with my RL. Both are run very hard. Both figures would rise if I stayed put on the highway. The SC will walk the RL in a straight line-well used to anyway. The RL will eat it in the mountains. Either way not bad considering my elevated driving style.
My GX is doing pretty good since I installed my Pulstar plugs (here comes a thread on those I'm sure).

Stokdgs

Purchased new in '04 a TL A-Spec 6 spd, and in '05 new RL. Both great cars with highway mileage in high 20's. Only have the RL now and it still gets 17-18 in town and 27+ on my 61 mile commute in sometimes bad stop and go traffic. I am sure on a level Calif. freeway with the cruise on I could probably get 30mpg out of the RL with AC on, averaging 77mph.
Dont have enough miles/time in my new IS350 to see how well it does,but on the few times I have driven this same commute, it seems to get to 25mpg and never gets higher.
The RL came fully loaded, Nav, Bose 5.1 Surround Sound, in '05 at $49,670, and seats 4+ comfortably. The Super Handling All Wheel Drive has saved me a few times, once coming down a steep grade in the Cascades, wet road,, sudden change in elevation and direction, the back end started to slide just tad, and the AWD kicked in and straightened it right out, so I know this really works well.
Right about it being heavier, wider, longer, etc., it is all those things, but boy its a great highway car too.
It has the 3.5 Liter 300hp VTEC motor, 24 valves, etc.. The newer one has a slightly bigger motor, to 3.7 I believe.. If there is anything I like better than the IS350, it would have to be the RL's NAV system..
The V6 engine is way quieter and more refined-sounding than the Lexus, but its ok, I have had other V6's before. Nothing will ever beat the Inline 6 of the BMW though.. DanF

pagemaster

While I do like the RL very much the MPG and size are not enough for me.

If I was in the market for premium mid size luxury car with AWD I would likely go with the Lexus GS350awd or Infiniti M35awd with the M just edging out the GS based on my tastes.

Now if I wanted something unique and different...the RL would be on the list.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Size? I was surprised myself. It is pretty large inside. The M was slightly larger than the RL. Now getting way off topic.
GS350
front headroom (inches): 37.8, rear headroom (inches): 37.0, front hip room (inches): 54.4, rear hip room (inches): 51.4, front leg room (inches): 43.5, rear leg room (inches): 36.4, front shoulder room (inches): 56.3, rear shoulder room (inches): 55.1

RL
front headroom (inches): 38.5, rear headroom (inches): 37.2, front hip room (inches): 55.1, rear hip room (inches): 54, front leg room (inches): 42.4, rear leg room (inches): 36.3, front shoulder room (inches): 58.5, rear shoulder room (inches): 56.1

But yes, I see GS gen II all day long. Not so many M's and very few RL's. I hate being part of the herd. The M was one of the cars st the top of our final list.

All nice cars.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

This is the one part I will have to constantly disagree with you one Mike. The SH-AWD doesn't have to be pushed hard for even the most average driver to benefit from it. It may start off at a 70/30 bias, but just like Pearlpower mentioned, it immediately starts to vary depending on conditions. Just punch it moderately from the stop light and most of the bias goes rearward. Like Pearpower mentioned, give it a test drive and watch the SH-AWD meter. AYou will find that it varies rearward heavily as well as side to side. You may not feel it in the car, but the system itself is really distributing power accordingly constantly. It rarely just starts on a full 70/30 bias unless you are just cruising along in a straight line.