TwiBlueG35

Yes I understand but not agreeing and not believing totally what he said.
Do you know they up the boost on the GT-R? Don't make any kind of conclusion without any proof. Just because someone pointed out there is a possibility of secretly modifying a car doesn't necessarily mean Nissan has done it. Was the guy there at the ring? Did he personally and physically check on the GT-R? If no, whatever he said is just one of many many possibilities. Even Porsche was not accusing about the engine or transmission modification, they were accusing Nissan of using racing tires.

Byprodrive

iTrader: (1)

I am sure the same Porsche engineers that designed & tested the GT2 & Turbo can figure out that a production GT-R is not able to lap the Ring faster than the GT2. Nissan boasted that the performance benchmark for the GT-R was the Porsche Turbo & it does not surprise me that Nissan would cheat to beat Porsche at the benchmark track to "achieve" that goal.

I worked at Nissan headquarters in SoCal until they moved to Tennesse while they were tweeking the 350Z suspension (correcting front tire wear problems like Lexus should be doing now for IS ) engineering dept had 2 Boxsters there for comparison test drives.

Dave600hL

No I don't know and only Nissan will probably ever know, but the power to weight ratio on the car is as stated in the article is about the same as a 993 turbo which puts in approx 34 sec slower times.... Oh... but its got different gearing.... And was Porsche accusing them of only using "other" tires? No they weren't, they were also saying that it was not a regular series production car, which I think means that other things were done to the car, to what extent is obviously something that Porsche can not comment on.


Oh, and here is one comment in the article you should probably think about...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

the cars AWD system is why it has so much grip. Its pretty much like SH-AWD, no porsche has a system like that

Dave600hL

They do now...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yea looks like Stig and Top Gear are in on the conspiracy too

TwiBlueG35

That was what Porsche thought Nissan had done. Have they proven it? No. What they have proven was that they couldn't duplicate what that particular driver did on that particular day with what they thought an irregular GT-R. Just because they couldn't do it, they assumed nobody in the world could.

Power to weight ratio is only one of many factors to determine if a car is fast or not. In November 2008 issue of Car and Driver they did a third annual Lighting lap, in which 22 sports cars were tested on Virginia International Raceway. Nissan GT-R(a production one) and Chevrolet Corvette Z51 were both tested. GT-R has a 8.1157lbs/hp and Corvette has a 7.506lbs/hp but the result was that the Nissan finished the lap in 2.55.6 and the Corvette finished in 3.01.2. Now, Corvette has a better power to weight ratio than the GT-R, but the Chevy finished the lap in a slower time. In this test a Ferrari F430 Scuderia was also tested along with them, and the F430 has a power to weight ratio of 6.1252lbs/hp, which I think was much much better than GT-R's. But what was the result? The Ferrari finished ahead of the Nissan, but by how much? one second sharp. If your power to weight ratio is so dominant in deciding a race, then I think the Ferrari should be ahead of, may be ten seconds or more. How good the car or tires I should say grip on the track, how much the car understeer or oversteer, how much body roll during turns, how good the brakes were, torque distribution, gear ratioetc and etc all counts. You were talking a 993 Turbo? Come on.

Here is what I think. Many people can not accept the fact that Nissan, a Japanese econo-box maker, could actually manufacture a world-class super car that is able to run along with the best of the best super cars in today's market, more so when Nissan is selling the car for half and even one third of the price of its Italian and German competitors. This is pathetic. If you don't believe Nissan so much, why do you believe Porsche then? Is it possible they detune the GT-R in order to make it slower? I am not saying Porsche did. I am just saying we shouldn't accuse somebody when there was absolutely no proof. You can see many many car reviews done by various countries had compared them, not only Japanese and German. And most, if not all, of them in which GT-R beat 911 Turbo.

But at the end the situation is this: if you believe, you believe, if you don't, so you don't.

LexFather

^^^^ I don't think its about "NIssan" being an econobox maker. They have tons of racing history. Again, the R33 was the first car to break the 8 min barrier at the Ring.

At this point, as much as I love Porshe, they need a big cup of **** b/c even if the GT-R is faster, people want their 911s anyway. Nissan said the turbo was the target, so not sure why Porsche can't understand why they beat it.
German arrogance FTL.

Bottom line, the GT-R can meet/beat a 911 TUrbo for 1/2 the price. DEAL WITH IT PORSCHE!!!

doug_999

ugh... we can't say that car x is faster on all tracks than car y. C&D (everyone's favorite rag here) just showed that some cars are faster on some tracks and vice versa. The track setup will obviously favor certain cars. In the comparison you point out, those are pretty quick lap times...and that track is certainly not the ring...

Dave600hL

Lets not make this a racist issue shall we...

I seriously doubt that the GTR can come close to beating the 911 at a place like the ring, but I suppose people believe what they want to believe.

Mr. Jones

The Nissan GTR has outlapped the 911 Turbo in every single comparison it has taken part in. Based on this any intelligent individual will figure out the GTR is the faster of the two.

EZZ

I have 4 mags that directly test the 911tt and GTR around a track and the 911 loses by a noticeable margin in each test. I've read several Euro mags that tested both with the same result. There is no way a 911tt is as fast as a GTR around a track.

LexFather

What I said was not racist at all, German press releases and company spokespeople say/said arrogant statements in the press all the time. Lets not forget Nissan and Porsche come form countries that held hands during WWII.

Again, I love Porsche and the GT-R.

UDel

Stock GTRs have been dynoed and they all showed to be putting out more hp then the figure put out by Nissan which means Nissan under rates the official hp on the GTR. Some even say the GTR is putting out over 550hp and the 480hp may be just what it is putting to the wheels. It is more difficult to determine what the actual hp is on awd cars then rwd or fwd cars because of more variables. In any case the reason the GTR is able to outperform so many cars that have similar hp and weight or even more hp and less weight is because the figure Nissan puts out is under rated and it also has a highly advanced awd system and the GTR has alot more hp then those other cars. The GTR like the last Skyline GTRs and Acura NSX type R are putting out much more hp then their underrated figures provided by Nissan and Honda which is one reason they perform so much better then expected.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I never trust a factory test. I never trust a magazine test. Why?

Way back in 1993 when the MkIV Supra was announced, C&D took their Supra (a red hard top) to the track. It ran 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and finished the 1/4 mile in 13.1 at 109 mph. No Supra owner ever got those times from his/her car when it was bone stock. No magazine ever got those times from ANY other Supra through 1998. Anyone familiar with Supras can tell you there were "ringer" ECMs used on those magazine test cars, just like anyone familiar with Supras can tell you how easy it is to add boost - and if you have access to the engine code, you can pretty much change anything you like as long as the engine will tolerate it.

So, believing magazine tests or Top Gear or anyone else in the media is straight out. They're all getting tuner specials. The real tests are exactly as Porsche has done - buy the car, take it to the track, run it, and see what it does.

And yes, the Lightening Lap is equally subject to ringers. Anything less would be uncivilized.