BMW prices were already too high and it looks like they raised them some more this MY
10-01-08, 03:59 PM
#16
Super Moderator
Lately a little, but compared to a few years ago, the USD is still very weak against the Euro, as well as most major world currencies. Try checking the prices of equivalent European models in European websites ...
10-01-08, 05:52 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
Seems like a lot of dough to spend on a car the size of a Civic.
Besides, every 18 year-old girl in the OC already has a 3 series.
I'd be interested to see the statistics for lease versus purchase.
Moops.
Besides, every 18 year-old girl in the OC already has a 3 series.
I'd be interested to see the statistics for lease versus purchase.
Moops.
10-01-08, 05:57 PM
#18
most the young girls in the O.C. lease probably upwards of 60%-70%
10-01-08, 06:02 PM
#19
That's fine.
I was just talking to my friend today about how American cars are making a come back.
None of us are domestic fans but...
Cobalt SS kicking WRX and Lancer GTS's butts?
ZR1 for 103k?
CTS-V?
Dang those are some good stuff, for a little over what BMW charges for a new M5 in NJ (98.9k), you can get a GTR or a ZR1!
I was just talking to my friend today about how American cars are making a come back.
None of us are domestic fans but...
Cobalt SS kicking WRX and Lancer GTS's butts?
ZR1 for 103k?
CTS-V?
Dang those are some good stuff, for a little over what BMW charges for a new M5 in NJ (98.9k), you can get a GTR or a ZR1!
10-01-08, 08:33 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
The 335i I reviewed also ran right around 47K, which, I agree, is somewhat overpriced, but it is still, IMO, a bargain and a better deal, dollar-for-dollar, than its M3 cousin, which, IMO, is WAY overpriced. We had several threads on a 335-M3 comparison, so I won't rehash that again in detail here.
10-01-08, 09:44 PM
#21
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I went ahead and checked all of the other options on the car that aren't on mine including side/rear window shades, nav, comfort access, active cruise control, active steering, HD radio, sat radio, and the ipod adapter. $58,395
RIDICULOUS!
Not to say that there aren't some other car companies that have also gotten carried away with their lack of standard equipment and charges for optional equipment, but BMW takes the cake among the major brands, anyway.
RIDICULOUS!
Not to say that there aren't some other car companies that have also gotten carried away with their lack of standard equipment and charges for optional equipment, but BMW takes the cake among the major brands, anyway.
The base price only went up a few hundred dollars but apparently it no longer includes the 13 speaker HK logic7 sound system that was standard before... it's now $875 extra. Also park distance control I'm pretty sure used to be standard as part of the premium package and is now an extra 700 bucks and I don't think the premium package price went down.
In the end, the price has gone up (The 335 was a significant jump from the 330 as well) and others can and will continue to bash BMW for charging for metallic paint (yes, just like Porsche) - but the company suffers from the Euro as well as a very expensive labor force. Alas, it's pretty cool when you can spec out your car the exact way you want it (yes, even with active cruise that works in stop and go traffic), order it and have it here in 6 weeks. You pay for this of course, but don't tell me you don't like your car
10-02-08, 08:32 AM
#23
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Oh my gosh... the nerve... and Lexus charges... oh wait, they don't have this feature..... PS - Plus as you know, it is a lot more than just a USB connection, it is full I-Pod connectivity.
Also I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive and jumping back on Lexus... I'm not a Lexus fan boy nor do I believe Lexus does everything right. If your response to any criticism of BMW is to ignore all the other companies that are doing things the right way and jump on the one other company that's also screwing things up, you're not being very honest with yourself.
Why? Those are some pretty sweet options there and they cost $ - where else are you going to be able to get things like mfg provided sat radio, HD radio, ipod, active steering, active cruise, sunshades on a $40K car? Are you saying that stuff should be STANDARD? BMW makes great options and you bash them for lack of standard equipment?
Park distance was not standard on the 3-series. It was REAR ONLY for 2008 and was a $350 option. For 2009, it is front and rear and is a $700 option.
In the end, the price has gone up (The 335 was a significant jump from the 330 as well) and others can and will continue to bash BMW for charging for metallic paint (yes, just like Porsche) - but the company suffers from the Euro as well as a very expensive labor force.
Is any criticism of BMW automatically a "bash"? I see bashing as somebody being unfairly and intently critical to a car company. Obviously I'm not biased against BMW... I have one at this exact moment. Why would I lease one if I was biased against them or had it out for them? I'm just honest about my feelings on my car, as I always have been. I guess being honest and unbiased won't make friends with anyone who's a fan of that particular brand unless you're saying good things about the car.
Alas, it's pretty cool when you can spec out your car the exact way you want it (yes, even with active cruise that works in stop and go traffic)
but don't tell me you don't like your car
Also while the drive of my 335i is very good and so is the power, I'd not describe the reliability or craftsmanship as impressive in the least for the price. The 3-series interior is worst in class IMO in terms of materials and assembly. The A4 is much better, though reliability is supposedly worse according to JD Power. My 3-series has given me a ton of headaches... been to the dealer probably around 8-9 times in the 11 months I've had it so far, and has quite a few rattles.
Last edited by Threxx; 10-02-08 at 08:37 AM.
10-02-08, 09:08 AM
#24
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"Um"... my car doesn't have nav, thus i-drive is not a difference between my car and a comparably equipped 2009 model, which is what I said I was comparing. Not to mention i-drive potentially no longer sucking isn't really something I feel I should be impressed by.
Please explain "full i-pod connectivity" to me and how it's different from the USB interface in any other vehicle, such as the Honda Civic.
Also I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive and jumping back on Lexus... I'm not a Lexus fan boy nor do I believe Lexus does everything right. If your response to any criticism of BMW is to ignore all the other companies that are doing things the right way and jump on the one other company that's also screwing things up, you're not being very honest with yourself.
Sorry but when I sit in my apparently now 50k+ dollar car it just doesn't feel like a 50k dollar car. My car has almost no features in it that aren't available in other cars selling for many thousands less. Just judging the value of what I have in front of me and looking at that price tag, the value doesn't seem very good. Just my opinion which is really what this thread is based on.
I didn't say standard, I said standard as part of the premium package but now that you mention it I do think I remember it now on my window sticker for $350.
The Euro to dollar ratio is a good point as I already mentioned, however it doesn't change the fact that the 3-series was already overpriced for what it was and is not even more overpriced. See... it's a good reason/excuse, definitely, but it doesn't change the fact.
Is any criticism of BMW automatically a "bash"? I see bashing as somebody being unfairly and intently critical to a car company. Obviously I'm not biased against BMW... I have one at this exact moment. Why would I lease one if I was biased against them or had it out for them? I'm just honest about my feelings on my car, as I always have been. I guess being honest and unbiased won't make friends with anyone who's a fan of that particular brand unless you're saying good things about the car.
Honestly I've always prefered the way Acura does it (and to a lesser extent, Honda)... you get your car with everything and the only choice is tech package or not, auto or manual. Yes you get less flexibility but their manufacturing costs are subsequently reduced by doing this which is savings passed on to the consumer. BMW takes the exact opposite approach which apparently means you have to pay 400 dollars for a USB connection that in terms of parts and manufacturing costs probably cost them 10 dollars to include.
I do like my car- especially the driving experience. And for the lease rate I managed to get it for, it's actually a pretty good value. Their lease rates have always been reasonable... just not their purchase prices.
I don't feel America currently produces anything that competes directly with the A4/3-series that's worth looking at. However I'm not necessarily stuck on buying something in that specific category of vehicle. I can go to a larger premium vehicle like the Caddy CTS and feel I'm getting an excellent value, or go lower down to something like the new Malibu and also get excellent value for the dollar, plus support the US economy.
Also while the drive of my 335i is very good and so is the power, I'd not describe the reliability or craftsmanship as impressive in the least for the price. The 3-series interior is worst in class IMO in terms of materials and assembly. The A4 is much better, though reliability is supposedly worse according to JD Power. My 3-series has given me a ton of headaches... been to the dealer probably around 8-9 times in the 11 months I've had it so far, and has quite a few rattles.
Please explain "full i-pod connectivity" to me and how it's different from the USB interface in any other vehicle, such as the Honda Civic.
Also I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive and jumping back on Lexus... I'm not a Lexus fan boy nor do I believe Lexus does everything right. If your response to any criticism of BMW is to ignore all the other companies that are doing things the right way and jump on the one other company that's also screwing things up, you're not being very honest with yourself.
Sorry but when I sit in my apparently now 50k+ dollar car it just doesn't feel like a 50k dollar car. My car has almost no features in it that aren't available in other cars selling for many thousands less. Just judging the value of what I have in front of me and looking at that price tag, the value doesn't seem very good. Just my opinion which is really what this thread is based on.
I didn't say standard, I said standard as part of the premium package but now that you mention it I do think I remember it now on my window sticker for $350.
The Euro to dollar ratio is a good point as I already mentioned, however it doesn't change the fact that the 3-series was already overpriced for what it was and is not even more overpriced. See... it's a good reason/excuse, definitely, but it doesn't change the fact.
Is any criticism of BMW automatically a "bash"? I see bashing as somebody being unfairly and intently critical to a car company. Obviously I'm not biased against BMW... I have one at this exact moment. Why would I lease one if I was biased against them or had it out for them? I'm just honest about my feelings on my car, as I always have been. I guess being honest and unbiased won't make friends with anyone who's a fan of that particular brand unless you're saying good things about the car.
Honestly I've always prefered the way Acura does it (and to a lesser extent, Honda)... you get your car with everything and the only choice is tech package or not, auto or manual. Yes you get less flexibility but their manufacturing costs are subsequently reduced by doing this which is savings passed on to the consumer. BMW takes the exact opposite approach which apparently means you have to pay 400 dollars for a USB connection that in terms of parts and manufacturing costs probably cost them 10 dollars to include.
I do like my car- especially the driving experience. And for the lease rate I managed to get it for, it's actually a pretty good value. Their lease rates have always been reasonable... just not their purchase prices.
I don't feel America currently produces anything that competes directly with the A4/3-series that's worth looking at. However I'm not necessarily stuck on buying something in that specific category of vehicle. I can go to a larger premium vehicle like the Caddy CTS and feel I'm getting an excellent value, or go lower down to something like the new Malibu and also get excellent value for the dollar, plus support the US economy.
Also while the drive of my 335i is very good and so is the power, I'd not describe the reliability or craftsmanship as impressive in the least for the price. The 3-series interior is worst in class IMO in terms of materials and assembly. The A4 is much better, though reliability is supposedly worse according to JD Power. My 3-series has given me a ton of headaches... been to the dealer probably around 8-9 times in the 11 months I've had it so far, and has quite a few rattles.
-King Bimmer
10-02-08, 09:23 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Sorry Threxx, but the market dictates price. Plenty of people think that the 3 series offers value or they would not be selling as many vehicles as they are. To mention Acura in this conversation makes no sense, because they really don't compete. You could say that the market thinks that the IS is overpriced, because while undercutting the BMW 3 series in price they do not sell as many cars. I chose the X6 over the Infiniti New FX, because while the FX was over $10k cheaper it isn't half the car the BMW is. So to me the FX was a rip off, and I gave both vehicles a fair shot.
-King Bimmer
-King Bimmer
Market dictates the price... sure... but if BMW didn't give such good lease rates how many would they sell to outright buyers, especially at current 2009 prices? I tend to believe the answer is 'not many'.
10-02-08, 11:11 AM
#27
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I only used Acura as an example of the polar opposite of option packaging from what BM does... make most of them standard, give one extra tech package, and offer it for a fairly low/reasonable price.
Market dictates the price... sure... but if BMW didn't give such good lease rates how many would they sell to outright buyers, especially at current 2009 prices? I tend to believe the answer is 'not many'.
Market dictates the price... sure... but if BMW didn't give such good lease rates how many would they sell to outright buyers, especially at current 2009 prices? I tend to believe the answer is 'not many'.
