S8B

That's exactly how I interpreted that statement. And in that context, its completely true.

Just as a Lexus feels more like a Mercedes, the Infiniti's feel more like BMW's. That doesn't mean they are up to par with BMW just yet.

.

LexFather

Before I start I truly hope no one sees this has hate or anti-Infiniti, as my many posts the past year have given the brand much kudos on their improvements. I recommended some of you stop quoting and debating everything you disagree with and how about giving kudos to people who compliment the brand/cars as well. That being said, this old;
Lexus is the Japanese Benz
Infiniti is the Japanese BMW

is utter and complete nonsense and garbage. Read below for some history.

Sorry but this is complete hogwash from people who clearly still read review and drive Lexus/Infiniti cars in 1989. This was some magazine comparison headliner attention title crap that made it easy to pit Lexus vs Benz with the LS and Infiniti vs BMW with the Q45. I will admit for the most part, the mags got it right for THOSE 2 INITIAL CARS.

Now lets go look at the past 20 years so people can stop with this ridiculous statement here in 2008/2009.

For one the Q45, the original Infiniti "BMW" is no longer made. So how are they like BMW when they can't even sell a flagship?

The SC 300/400 was sportier than ANY Infiniti back in 1992-2000, so how does this make Infiniti the Japanese BMW?

The G20/M30/J30/QX4/I30/35 were not Japanese BMWs. They were utter failures, all discontinued. How is this a Japanese BMW?

In contrast in 1993 Lexus had the RWD GS 300 that while underpowered in America but was praised for a fun, RWD chassis. In Japan you could get it with a V-8, with Turbos, even with AWD and 4 wheel steering (as the Aristo). That sounds more like a Japanese BMW to me.

The ES and LS continued to march down the path of comfort and luxury. Some say "Japanese Benz" but the cars were/are considered best in class so its a LEXUS, not some Benz copy. There is no denying these models are the models people think of when they think Lexus (and the RX).

Okay, so now you have the LX/RX come, which are SUVs and not fun. They are not "Japanese Benzes b/c"
1. The LX was not some G-wagon clone.
2. The RX was the first car based luxury SUV, the M-class was truck based.

Okay, so now lets get to the GS 300/400/430. 3 time 10 best winner. Praised for coupe like handling. No INfiniti midsize sedan comes close at the time, even with the M45 debut in 2003. So how the hell is Infiniti still the Japanese BMW?

Then Lexus again beat Infiniti to the 3 series RWD punch with the 2001 IS 300, down to dimensions and an I-6. The G35 comes and to its credit, is faster, bigger and is the first Infiniti since the Q45 to draw BMW comparisons. Still the IS 300 DID TOO. So how the hell is Infiniti the Japanese BMW when Lexus beat them to the punch and was nearly identical to the 3 series?

Lexus has the SC 430 coupe, not very sporty, not BMW like in handling.

Infinti did make a bold move with the FX, which drove very sporty for a SUV, more X5 than RX.

Somewhere along the line, Infiniti offers a "S" sport package for the G/M.

Infiniti then debuts the ridiculous QX56, which is less sporty than a GX.

The new GS/M35/45 debut and the M35/45 is praised for being the sportier car. (Lexus counters in 2007 with Adapative sways but no mag has tested cars with it and the steering is still not as engaging)

Well now you have LS/ES/SUVs for the traditional Lexus buyer.

Now you have the IS/GS for the sportier LExus buyer. You have F-sport accessories.

You now have the Lexus IS-F which is the sportiest luxury badged sedan sold between Lexus and Infiniti.

Infiniti today has only 2 cars lines, the G cars and the M cars .They have 3 SUV lines, the EX, FX and QX.

Infiniti offers ONE MANUAL in the G sedan coupe.
Lexus offers ONE MANUAL in the IS 250.

So its clear both brands have offered fun/sporty cars and both brands have had totally not sporty cars. Lexus is still known by the public as luxurious cars led by the LS 460/600 and Infiniti are getting to be known for their fun cars led by the G35/37. That is not to say both brands don't offer the opposite.

Does Infiniti seem like the sportier brand? Yes. Do they have sportier offerings than Lexus? Yes, it depends. As of late, have they gotten sportier with some of their offerings? Yes. Are they a Japanese BMW? Hell no.

Lets look at BMW
1 series
3 series
5 series
X3
X5
X6
6 series
7 series
M3, M5, M6

Its not even a fair comparison as the complete BMW lineup is sporty (sans the X3) and their true "M" cars are LEGENDARY . I wish people would try to let Infiniti forge their own path (which to their credit the are trying) than trying to say the old 20 year line "Lexus vs Benz, Infiniti vs BMW".

IS-F > any sporty car Infiniti has made. Better pray to Ghosen an Infiniti badged GT-R does come.

Lexus was the first luxury brand to represent in SEMA with MULTIPLE cars, some from members here.

I won't even get into racing as Lexus has been/is involved in several race series and I think there is one Infiniti team in one race series.

The problem actually is a HUGE for Lexus as they still cannot overcome their somewhat "Staid" image, even with there being probably 50 times more modded LExus cars than INfinitis. They are well aware they have an older image probelm, no matter what they come out with and what people do to their Lexus.

I've given my 2 cents on what I would like to see Infiniti do. For one stop rebadging their cars from Nissans, even if they are sporty. Seperate the brand. There is no reason they should NOT have an Infiniti version of the GT-R. Stop the SUV crap and either bring that rumored small car or a coupe M35/45. Then bring SUVs.

I hope when people read this, they see the complete picture here as I do and see both brand have sporty cars, both brands offer traditional luxury segment vehicles.

Oh and my 1SICKREVIEW of the new G35 said its the best value in class and I was very impressed by it. I even recommeded it strongly to follow moderator OVerclocker who did make that purchase. I can only image the G37 extends on those positive traits.

(ducks and hides)

bad co

Im not bashing Infiniti completly they are a step in the right direction for the brand but they just arent up theyre with bmw mb audi lexus

S8B

1SICKLEX,

Your post is very long, so I'll just reply to a few points:

- First, I just want to point out that I think some of you are taking "Japanese BMW" way out of context. No one is saying Infiniti is up to par with BMW as of now in terms on the brand as a whole.

- Why do you always bring "history" into these debates? Do people do a history search of the brand itself and throw any posibility away because of its past? If so, that's rather sad. You seem to always bring Infiniti's past failures into many Infiniti threads.

We all know they were a huge failure prior to the G35. Does this mean that it should be a drag for the company? What's the point in bringing its history into this debate? Does their history take anything away from their current lineup?

- The current GS is a fantastic car. Hell, I even convinced my own father into getting a 2006 GS430. It's a fantastic luxury sedan. But there's nothing sporty about it unless your standards for "sporty" are that low. It's a luxury sedan, and it does its job.
- That's obviously true. But Infiniti has nothing to compare to it for now; that's apples vs oranges there.

When it comes to comparing the same lineups, for example, the G/IS, M/GS, FX/RX, etc, Infiniti is always the sportier vehicle. Which is why people say Infiniti is more "BMW" than anything else.

Let me ask you this simple question: If you were two divide the G/3-series/IS/C-Class into two groups, based on their similarities, what would it be? (And the same question in regards to the M/5-Series/GS/E-Class)

If you group them into 2 logical groups based on similarties, well, that's all their is to it to the phrase "Japanese BMW". Along with the fact that Infiniti is aiming directly at BMW.

Tekknikal

looks like a good update. i wonder why they didnt do this from the beginning. anyway, i hope they get rid of the s badge. they do not need it

1QWKGS4

iTrader: (3)

I hope i'm not adding fuel to the fire but I agreed with Skater.. I hope i can bring a fair and balanced discussion into this polite debate.. I have own both Lexus and Infiniti and have owned both brands at the same time.. As you know Mike - I've had my GS400 for almost 10 years now and thru the years I've had an IS300 a few years back. During the last 5 years - my daily drivers were Infiniti G35's.. In all honesty, everytime I've bought an Infiniti i have compared them to the current lexus and bmw brands.. and so far to my liking and taste in the overall car - i have picked Infiniti over Lexus because its the more sportier brand..


People that don't know cars like we do often ask me, Lexus/Infiniti whats the difference? I often tell people Lexus is luxury with a hint of Sport and Infiniti is Sport w/ a hint of Luxury. Different animals. I, myself often refer to Lexus as a Japanese Mercedes - why did they build the LS series, to compete with the S class mercedes and if you want to argue history - Mercedes had been around alot longer than Lexus or even Mother Toyota.. Didn't Mercedes build the very first car?!?

So for reference, many people including myself has refer Infiniti as a Japanese BMW.. I'm not saying Infiniti equals BMW - i'm saying in a Japanese car maker - Infiniti builds the closest specimen to a BMW.. I wanted to buy a BMW many times but after calculating value vs. performance and reliability issues with bmw and the electronics in Infiniti is worlds ahead of BMW..I believe BMW's are better performance oriented vehicles but for the overall car if you factor in everything.. is why I chose a Infiniti over BMW so far everytime.

Recently, The lease on my G35 Coupe ended.. I didn't pick up anything new because i wanted to do some research to see what upcoming models i would like to have.. Trust me, 335i and IS350 were my target vehicles.. I actually wanted a 4dr daily driver now since i needed alittle break from the coupes..but I was leaning on the IS350's because what? To no one's surprise, I'm a hard core Lexus enthusiast and I want my own family of Lexus vehicles. After thoroughly looking at the IS350 vs. my own personal taste..

I was a bit disappointed with my conclusions in the 350..I'm not trying to put the 350 down - I'm just noting what I see according to what I like/dislike in any vehicle. Power was good, nav & electronics-good.. car is bit small (cabin wise not front leg room), I'm 6'4 245lbs.. Seats were not as comfy as my G35 coupe? How could that be?!? The Belt line seems really low - too low for a 4dr.. Back seat legroom - i knew it was small but are you kidding me? the car should have been a coupe - my g35 coupe had more legroom.. I was in trouble since I'm needing a daily diver fast and my target vehicle the IS350 was a disappointment to me, unless i wanted to spend $15K more for a BMW beacause my budget was $40-$42K. A friend of mine who works for Infiniti in Atlanta calls one nite and asks if i had decided between the 350 and the 335i? I said probably the 335i but i don't like the hefty price tag and the crappy i-drive stuff on the car..He says, I'm not trying to sell you another Infiniti but have you looked at the new G35 Sedans and G37 Coupe? I said, G37 Coupe - not impressed with their direction in the car - better front end, tail is ugly and body lines are bit weird compared to my '06 G35 Coupe. As far as G35 Sedan - i said, Hell no! They gave me a G35 sedan to drive when i brought my coupe in for service and i thought the car was maybe a step or two above an Acura TL. My friends says, you know they have a Sport model where they changed the front fascia bumper, side sills are sportier, sport suspension w/18" wheels, limited diff, uprgraded brembo brakes and the seats are different which has powered bolster and power thigh support.. I said, yeah - i know a guy from our lexus club who owns a performance shop in atlanta has one - pretty bad to the bone but its a 6-sp manual. My friend says in 2008 the G35 Sport model has been extended to the regular Sedan as a package w/ upgraded trans & paddle shifters and the car is faster than the G37 Coupe.. He told me, the G35 S Sedan is no joke..I thought, yeah Right, Whatever! A week or two go by and i was cruising by Infiniti and my friend who i was riding with says lets stop at Infiniti.. I said, thats cool.. he wanted to drive the G37 coupe which i had already driven. While he's on the test drive - i was bored and a Sales guy ask if i wanted to drive a car - i said why not - i want to drive the G35 S Sedan.. okay, so he finds the car and pulls it to the front door as my friend pulls up - we all got in the G35 S Sedan - and i was bit skeptical and usually don't run cars hard on test drives but the sales guy was young and said he own a G35 coupe and wish he would have waited because the Sport Sedan was bad*ss.. okay, now we're on.. let me say, I've driven alot cars and not easily impressed.. the G35S Sedan pulls hard, head snapping shifts, smooth luxurious ride when on highways but can handle corners almost as good as my G35 Coupe.. The gearing in the trans was definitely different than the the regular G Sedan.. OMG!! this car rocks.. I applied all the criteria i went against the IS350 and power was equal to the 350's with different gearing in the auto sport model - i know in many tests the G sedan is a bit slower than the IS350 but having driven a IS350 recently vs. the G Sedan Sport.. I believe they are pretty equal.. The seats were more comfy than the 350's. Nav/electronics to me seems a bit better and more user friendly to me. Cabin feels roomier than the 350 - Same legroom up front as the 350. Backseat legroom was very close if not the same as my GS400!! Wow! How can this be in a G Series which is a smaller car than the Lexus GS?! Belt line was very mid range - not too low or high..Just about right.. Later, I called my buddy to see if he had one in Atlanta so I can come get one since i had the hookup with him. He had one that was loaded with premium, nav, sport, technology pkg, i believe every option except 4-wheel steering which i had on my coupe which was ultra crisp steering but a pain to park because the steering ratios are shorter..The price came out to right under $41K thats MSRP before negotiations..After, my friend worked his magic - i got the car for $35K out the door. With a similar equipped IS350 would be around $43-$45K w/ maybe $1500-$2000 discount if you had connections. Similar Equipped 335i - near $60K - yeah right whatever - for that go ahead and get an ISF.. but my criteria is for a daily driver car with lots of room and best value while being a Sports Sedan.. The G35 S sedan wins hands down.. I wanted to wait for the G37 S Sedan but couldn't wait and need a car ASAP..

I know my story is long but i wanted to explain from a Lexus owners point of view (at least mine) why i seem to always picked Infiniti over Lexus as my daily vehicle.. Those that know me- know that I'm a Ultra Lexus enthusiast as my GS400 is heavily modded and one-step under forced induction. But for the Value you can't beat Infiniti with near BMW-like performance.

And for the Record I had an '04 G35 Coupe w/every option. I had an '06 G35 Coupe w/ every option. Now, I have an '08 late model G35S Sedan.. and ofcourse my trusty '99 GS400 in just about mint condition with 48K miles..

I know what I just wrote and if you guys want to flame me especially the (IS350 guys) go ahead. I was only expressing my personal example and criteria of what i felt was an honest approach for the right pick for myself. According to my taste, Infiniti is more attractive & valuable brand in any vehicle in the $40K range.

TwiBlueG35

[QUOTE=1QWKGS4;3912862]I hope i'm not adding fuel to the fire but I agreed with Skater.. I hope i can bring a fair and balanced discussion into this polite debate.. I have own both Lexus and Infiniti and have owned both brands at the same time.. As you know Mike - I've had my GS400 for almost 10 years now and thru the years ......[QUOTE]

Wow the post is getting longer and longer. Anyways, I won't flame you because I have the same feeling as you do. I had a 03 G35 sedan and drove it for five years before I sold it and bought my IS and I know how well it drove. The only reason I picked up an IS over the second gen G35 sedan was I like IS's styling more. But I have to admit G's is more of a sports sedan than IS is, even without considering the price of both cars.

1QWKGS4

iTrader: (3)

Thanks TwiBlueG35, I appreciate your honesty..

Heres a Sedan Comparo done by Edmunds which proves my sentiments accordingly..

/www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123235

ST430

take it fwiw (from C&D):

memasterac

I always like Nissan/Infiniti. It is the Japanese BMW, imho. Nissan in Japan has different reputation than in the US. The “brand recognition” is so different in the States. Many people here don't give Nissan credit for making better vehicles, on the other side, Honda/Acura is getting more than it deserves. (new Accord, Element, MDX, RDX, TL, Pilot, etc) I praise Nissan/Infiniti for making better cars and improving the quality, well done!

carguy101

Pricing for the 2009 G37 Sedan/Coupe are announced.

The price of the sedan rose by $1000. No changes in the pricing for the options/packages.

http://nissannews.com/newsrelease.do...4?id=601&mid=1

http://www.nissannews.com/assets/att...MSRP_10-08.pdf

So basically, a 2008 G35 Sedan w/ Premium and Nav that would have cost $38,000 now costs $39,000 (2009 G37 Sedan w/ Premium and Nav). That's a 2.6% increase, which is way less than the general increase in inflation in the past year.

Hell of a deal if you ask me. Considering that the 2009 is significantly faster and more fuel efficient.

LexFather

1. History is VERY important not just to the car industry but ANY industry and more so the luxury arena. Successful people want to be associated with Successful brands. From VW to Jaguar to Aston Martin, their CEOs have stated so.
2. IMO its old and ridiculous to call them the Japanese BMW when BMW offers manuals in the 3 and 5 and their SUVs in Europe and Infiniti has one manual in teh 3. Their steering feel is better than Lexus, does not trump BMW. I think Infiniti is being good at trying to be Infiniti.

We can no longer just make BLANKET STATEMENTS about Lexus and Infiniti in comparsion to Benz/BMW since they both offer sport/dull vehicles.


As for pricing, the G35 is known as a great car being a great value. They better keep the pricing down or continue to rely on lease deals.

carguy101

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/20/f...nd-g37s-sedan/

"In terms of sheer acceleration, the new gearing should drop the 0-60 time a bit, but Infiniti doesn't publish numbers and we didn't have our test gear with us. Our "butt dyno" says the car is quick. Really quick. We are betting the new engine/transmission combo helps the G37 sedan sprint to 60 mph in about 5 seconds flat – that's faster than the Audi A4 3.2 and Lexus IS350, but it still won't snuff a stock BMW 335i."


"Don't tell the displacement junkies, but it's not the new 3.7-liter VQ that transforms the G37. Sure, the new V6 offers more horses under the hood, but the torque is practically unchanged. The increased efficiency is welcomed, but is offset by the additional engine volume (check the 6MT fuel mileage figures again). The metamorphosis is wholly credited to the new 7-speed transmission – it delivers smooth shifts, an accurate power band, and improved fuel economy."

LexFather

Wow, the AWD coupe really is a great addition to the lineup. Kudos to Infiniti. The 7 speed seems to help Highway MPG some, but not City. They are raving about the new tranny.

The sedan looks pretty uhh with those new wheels. Outside the exterior, everything else matches up.

Great work Infiniti.

KINGLEX

infiniti is the japanese infiniti. the only time they come close to a bmw is when nissan buys one and brings it to their campus for dissecting. Infiniti does need an antiglare nav screen. When I tested the FX50 before buying my X6 I couldn't read the screen due to the sun.


-King Bimmer