GM, Chrysler reportedly hold merger discussions (could eliminate Chrysler afterwards)
10-18-08, 01:16 PM
#31
Moderator
I somewhat agree with you but I look to where the parent company is headquartered. For example Toyota is a Japanese company through and through. Yes, some Toyota's are made in Canada, United States, Mexico and throughout many places in the world but the processes, procedures and supervision come from the Japanese parent company. Also some parts are made from many locations not from Japan and may not even be a Toyota company or a subsidiary. Example the light bulbs can be made by Sylvania, not owned by Toyota at all but Toyota understands that Sylvania is very good at what they do so Toyota puts those parts into their cars they manufacture. I could go to tires next but I think you'll understand my point...
10-19-08, 02:16 AM
#33
GM is in for the cash on hand, they have a better product line than Chrysler right now but they have too many divisions and duplicate car lines which is a big part of their problem, if any of the big three fail I would rather them go out fighting than be bought and shut down by a rival, too bad the decision will be made by Cerebus who has dog in both fights. 
10-19-08, 08:50 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
I truly fear if it happens how many more jobs are lost.
What is amazing to me is we bail out (#()$)(#) banks but not an autocompany? People bish about welfare but we give welfare to investment firms?
WHy not write every damn business a blank check then?
THey need help and the govt is not giving them any.
What is amazing to me is we bail out (#()$)(#) banks but not an autocompany? People bish about welfare but we give welfare to investment firms?
WHy not write every damn business a blank check then?
THey need help and the govt is not giving them any.
10-19-08, 11:16 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
I Yes, some Toyota's are made in Canada, United States, Mexico and throughout many places in the world but the processes, procedures and supervision come from the Japanese parent company. Also some parts are made from many locations not from Japan and may not even be a Toyota company or a subsidiary. Example the light bulbs can be made by Sylvania, not owned by Toyota at all but Toyota understands that Sylvania is very good at what they do so Toyota puts those parts into their cars they manufacture. I could go to tires next but I think you'll understand my point...
10-19-08, 11:19 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
I truly fear if it happens how many more jobs are lost.
What is amazing to me is we bail out (#()$)(#) banks but not an autocompany? People bish about welfare but we give welfare to investment firms?
WHy not write every damn business a blank check then?
THey need help and the govt is not giving them any.
What is amazing to me is we bail out (#()$)(#) banks but not an autocompany? People bish about welfare but we give welfare to investment firms?
WHy not write every damn business a blank check then?
THey need help and the govt is not giving them any.
The problem is that the government can't keep doing that indefinitely...we only have so many dollars in the public trough. And even more important.....the bailout money is also considered a loan.....which is to be repaid BACK to the government (like Chrysler did back in the 1980's) when operating conditions and profits eventually allow.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-19-08 at 11:22 AM.
10-19-08, 11:35 AM
#37
Moderator
I do understand your point, but the fact remains that no matter where the parent company is headquarted (in the U.S. or overseas), if their vehicles are made here in the U.S., the money they pay to operate the plant and pay the worker salaries goes into the pockets of Americans here at home, not back to Europe or Asia.
Whereas U.S. companies outsource labor to for example China to manufacture goods but sell them here to the U.S. think Nike.
So since the Japanese parent owns 100% of the U.S. company guess how the money gets transferred back to Japan...that's right a dividend...so you're right to a certain point but you haven't gone all the way...
Last edited by Trexus; 10-19-08 at 04:06 PM.
10-19-08, 11:29 PM
#38
That what burns my @ss every time one of these guys wishes for American automakers to fail, they have no economic clue what a ripple effect this causes, not only employees but parts suppliers, subcontractors, truck and rail services etc, not to mention the small businesses that provide services to employees and local economies losing their tax base, very shallow thinking imo.
10-20-08, 04:00 PM
#40
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Yes, you do somewhat understand my point and I kinda understand your side to a certain point. Let's examine how Toyota outsources labor overseas. Toyota is headquartered in Japan which is factually fact. They set up a company here in the U.S. called Toyota Motor North America. It is 100% a U.S. entity and files a U.S. tax return Form 1120 and pays U.S. taxes but don't forget that Toyota U.S. entity is one hundred percent owned by the Japanese parent and they will file a Form 5472. A Form 5472 is a disclosure that a foreign company owns a U.S. entity. Yes, the Toyota U.S. entity pays wages and salaries to U.S. workers and even sells the cars they manufacture here in the U.S. to U.S. folks. Isn't that a great thing?
Whereas U.S. companies outsource labor to for example China to manufacture goods but sell them here to the U.S. think Nike.
So since the Japanese parent owns 100% of the U.S. company guess how the money gets transferred back to Japan...that's right a dividend...so you're right to a certain point but you haven't gone all the way...
Whereas U.S. companies outsource labor to for example China to manufacture goods but sell them here to the U.S. think Nike.
So since the Japanese parent owns 100% of the U.S. company guess how the money gets transferred back to Japan...that's right a dividend...so you're right to a certain point but you haven't gone all the way...
10-20-08, 11:18 PM
#41
Moderator
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=TM
Toyota is a global company. They provide jobs in Japan, United States, Canada, Mexico and many places in the whole entire world. Toyota pays taxes in Japan, United States, Canada, Mexico and many countries in the whole entire world. Toyota is the most profitable auto manufacturer in the whole entire world. Look at the link below and tell me what auto manufacturer makes more than Toyota?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TM&annual
10-23-08, 06:05 AM
#42
Both sides will really need to concede some items on the table to make this work but it work should be in their interest at this point
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp., its troubles worsened by a deepening sales slump in the U.S. and Europe, will be forced to lay off salaried workers even after more employees than expected took buyouts, the auto maker said in a letter sent to executives.
GM also will cut salaried worker benefits, including eliminating matching payments into 401(k) plans and further changes to be announced soon, according to the letter from GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson.
"The global credit crisis has had a dramatic impact upon the industry at large, and new vehicle markets in North America and Western Europe have contracted severely," the message said. "The global economic outlook remains very concerning. As a result, actions are being taken throughout GM's global operations to address our increasing need to conserve cash."
GM burned through about $1 billion a month in the second quarter, when it reported a $15.5 billion loss, and the environment has only deteriorated since. U.S. economic troubles and a tightening of the global credit markets have driven down auto sales and cut off GM's access to cash.
The auto maker hoped to reduce salaried headcount by 15%, or 5,000 workers, under a buyout and retirement incentive program. Workers have until Friday to decide whether to take a buyout.
The moves are part of a $15 billion liquidity boosting-plan announced in July that includes $10 billion in cost-cutting.
GM, in the letter, said more actions are being taken throughout the auto maker's global operations to conserve cash, and that more salaried benefit changes will soon be announced. It said layoffs will take place later this year and early next year.
The extent of the auto maker's financial woes will become clearer when the company announces third-quarter financial results and October sales figures. Sales are expected to be down significantly this month for GM in a slow overall market following a September in which the auto maker fared better than its rivals.
GM also will cut salaried worker benefits, including eliminating matching payments into 401(k) plans and further changes to be announced soon, according to the letter from GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson.
"The global credit crisis has had a dramatic impact upon the industry at large, and new vehicle markets in North America and Western Europe have contracted severely," the message said. "The global economic outlook remains very concerning. As a result, actions are being taken throughout GM's global operations to address our increasing need to conserve cash."
GM burned through about $1 billion a month in the second quarter, when it reported a $15.5 billion loss, and the environment has only deteriorated since. U.S. economic troubles and a tightening of the global credit markets have driven down auto sales and cut off GM's access to cash.
The auto maker hoped to reduce salaried headcount by 15%, or 5,000 workers, under a buyout and retirement incentive program. Workers have until Friday to decide whether to take a buyout.
The moves are part of a $15 billion liquidity boosting-plan announced in July that includes $10 billion in cost-cutting.
GM, in the letter, said more actions are being taken throughout the auto maker's global operations to conserve cash, and that more salaried benefit changes will soon be announced. It said layoffs will take place later this year and early next year.
The extent of the auto maker's financial woes will become clearer when the company announces third-quarter financial results and October sales figures. Sales are expected to be down significantly this month for GM in a slow overall market following a September in which the auto maker fared better than its rivals.
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Chrysler said Thursday that it will eliminate one production shift at its Toledo (Ohio) North Assembly Plant and accelerate the closure of its Newark (Delaware) Assembly Plant. The shift reduction at Toledo North will affect approximately 825 jobs. The closure of the Newark plant will affect approximately 1,000 jobs. Chrysler said these changes are in response to the continuing global economic slowdown and auto industry contraction, as well as the market's continuing movement toward smaller vehicles. Both changes will be effective Dec. 31.
10-23-08, 07:05 AM
#43
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I don't see how making GM bigger with a dying auto group would be good. GM's problem was that it was too big, and their cars were overlapping and the public wised up to it and demanded variety, as well as quality. GM + Chrysler = Train wreck and a sinking ship all in one.
10-23-08, 10:27 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
I don't see how making GM bigger with a dying auto group would be good. GM's problem was that it was too big, and their cars were overlapping and the public wised up to it and demanded variety, as well as quality. GM + Chrysler = Train wreck and a sinking ship all in one.
10-23-08, 11:10 AM
#45
Pole Position
In some ways, GM is not big ENOUGH. Years ago, they dropped vehicles that they should have kept, like the big, full-frame RWD V8 cars (Caprice, Impala, Roadmaster, Fleetwood), F-Body Camaros/Firebirds, and, more recently, all of their minivans. The imminent return of the new Camaro shows that GM has acknowledged at least one of those mistakes. If Chrysler merges with GM, that alone would give GM the factory capacity to bring more of those needed models back.