dunnojack

it does seem like they don't test their tech anymore. specifically the simple mechanical stuff like the folding/dipping side mirrors.

i wonder if they just ignored that, or if they really opened/closed/folded the mirrrors at least 10000 times.

pagemaster

Going throught some the forums I am suprised and some of the complaints that I am reading about. I do have to say that the hybrids and the powertrains of all Toyota are bulletproof.

The biggest suprise is the ES350. It was released with one set of mirrors in 2008 and then for 2009 Lexus changed the mirror to ones that were quieter.

Did they not test these mirrors?

Vladi

Most A4, C and 3s sold in Europe are also soft riding and lack steering feel. What we drive in US (big 6 cylinder models with stiff setups) count only for a small fraction of what most Europeans experience. 4 cyl diesles or petrols ride on a completely opposite suspension settings than those of V6, they also lack high tech brakes, shocks, struts, etc.
Driving a rental 4cyl A4 in Europe is no different experience than riding in US Honda Accord

KINGLEX

sorry but while bmw does make 4 bangers your other comments referencing them are complete bs, and i've been to europe many times and driven bmw's over there. The european accord doesn't even drive like an american accord.

-King Bimmer

Big Andy

What???? That's complete nonsense. The engines may be 4 cylinder in many cases but BMW, Audi, Mercedes do not "dumb down" their steering or suspension set-ups for the European markets, nor do they offer inferior brakes. They generally offer an SE specification as an alternative to the M Sport or S-line packs available, but despite slightly higher profile tyres and ride height they handle and steer just as sweetly.

LexFather

BMW is the only luxury brand by far to be sporty in pretty much all their cars, even base ones. Audi has never been known for great steering, nor Benz. Every single review states this.

Vladi

So you are implying that 2.0TDI with 110hp has same suspension setup as 3.2V6 and also the same brakes?

I am just trying to break up the stigma that no matter what it is as long as its European its superior. Also you can't convience me into something that I have experienced on day to day basis. I owned almost every generation A4 2.0TDI as DD and truth is it drives like closely as Golf absolutely no feedback from steering wheel, ride is very plushy, tt feels tight and it doesn't float but there is absolutely nothing sporty about it, nothing!

Well than again "sporty" is very subjective so not everyone has same expectations.

KINGLEX

Audi's while they are nice cars haven't historically been about sport, hence FWD or Quattro.

-KingBimmer

Big Andy

My wife works for Audi so we have had every model on the driveway from A2s up to Q7s - including any number of A4s from 1.9TDIs through to 3.2 Quattros, so I am well aware of their handling characteristics - both good and bad. And yes A4s don't handle like BMWs. Of course shocks are tailored for the weight of engine in the front and brakes are designed to make sure they can stop repeatedly from speed but the assertion that these components are of inferior quality and ride setting are polar opposites is plain wrong.
If you want a beautifully handling diesel car try a 160bhp BMW320d in base spec and then tell me it doesn't ride and handle well - it sets the benchmark in its class. The new C220d runs it extremely close. The new A4 isn't a ball of fire but the 170bhp 2.0TDI S-line is certainly equipped to go and stop well.

spwolf

Vast majority of European BMW/Audi/MB drivers could care less about the steering feel. People buy luxury cars in Europe to show off their money. In the case of Audi, vast majority are FWD vehicles that people buy because they are cheaper than BMW and MB.

tex2670

Lexus doesn't need to undercut on price anymore. Not to say that they should be arrogant, and resist constant improvment, but the name "Lexus" now is constantly uttered with other top luxury brands (you can't say that about Acura or Infiniti). Lexus undercut price to lure people away from the longstanding, trusted luxury brands. Just as VW struggled with customers balking at spending almost as much for a Pheaton as they would an A8, S500 or 750, you would think that the same mentality would have taken hold when Lexus was new, with no independent history or reputation.

TwiBlueG35

I don't think Lexus has lost its way. They still make dependable cars with lots of high techs features and well designed exterior and interior stylings along with great dealers experience. As more and more stuff put into the car, of course there are more chances to have something out of order, that's why you don't find the current Lexus as "solid" as in 1990. Lexus vehicles are still getting better and better, but only the other companies are improving their products as well. And Lexus shouldn't undercut the price, at least not so in the United States because they have successfully established their fame and image. In my opinion what Lexus needs is a broader lineup, 1 dedicated hybrid crossover, two new coupes(one in the $100k range and one in the $40k range) and one new roadster, with more engine and transmission choices, and that's it. Mercedes-Benz and BMW have much broader lineups than Lexus does. Just on top of my head, M-B has A, B, C, C wagon, CLK, CLK convertible, CLS, CL, SLK, SL, ML, GL, GLK, G, R, E, E wagon, and S, and may be missing something, that is at least 18 models. BMW has 1 coupe, 1 hatchback, 3 sedan, 3 coupe, 3 convertible, 3 wagon, 5 sedan, 5 wagon, 7, 6 coupe, 6 convertible, z4 roadster, z4 coupe, x3, x5, and x6, that is at least 16 models. And these two companies are making 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, 8 cylinder, 10 cylinder, and 12 cylinder engines in naturally aspirated or forced induction forms. These creats many many more variations of models. But so far Lexus only has 4 sedans and 3 SUVs and 1 roadster that is totally 8 models, and come with mainly 6 and 8 cylinder engines with auto trannies along with three non-dedicated hybrids, and some markets don't even have all of them. We Americans are already the luckiest one has the most complete Lexus lineup. But the bottomline is, no one could be number one forever, and no one could be number one everywhere in the world. As long as Lexus is one of the best luxury automakers, I am satisfied and feel proud of owning a Lexus.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I think you guys haven't thought about one simple aspect.

This is a forum for car enthusiasts. Most of the Lexus owners in the world won't know the differences that we can tell, they don't feel passionate about little quirks here and there. Lexus has to cater to the mass, although I feel the same as you guys, I want Lexus to be perfect in every way and to be the ultimate brand, it just won't happen. There are way too many aspects for them to work around, especially profits. Lexus would need to see a change in their market to demand more, so that they can adapt to the market.

kalvano

As a salesman for Lexus, my #1 complaint is our tech. Not our safety adn security tech, but our cool tech. Acura blows us away when it comes to nav systems, MB's S-class has so much more awesome stuff in it...they try and go the safe / reliable route for the tech in their cars, and it's nowhere near as competitive.

Having said that, we are tops in reliability, the safety of our cars is outstanding, resale value is superb, and we have some of the smoothest and quietest cars on the road. We will not ever compete with BMW / MB in terms of sport and handling. We serve a different market, for the most part.

As far as dealers go, they have too many in certain areas. Around here, there are 4 for the entire area. Competition is there, but service HAS to be as well.

In a place like California, around L.A., Lexus is more like Chevy than a luxury brand. 20+ dealers within 3 or 4 hours of each other makes for fierce competition, and service tends to fall by the wayside.

As a salesman too, I have to turn some of the blame onto clients. Everyone wants to pay invoice or under, they have reams of paper to back up their claims, blah, blah, blah. The simple fact is that service costs money, and pushing for bargain-basement pricing will ultimately get you bargain-basement service.

CDNROCKIES

I wouldn't necessarily say that Lexus has "lost it's way", but more that they are unclear on what direction they are going. It will be interesting to see where they place their focus over the next few years.

The upcoming release of the new RX will be an indication of how they want to proceed with their best selling model. It seems (at least from spy photos and forum discussion) that they are going to be rather conservative and not make any major changes, like the LF-X concept vehicle suggested. Doesn't seem to be moving the brand forward, but we will wait and see. We are waiting for the new release to decide whether to stick with the RX.

The IS F was a radical departure from the conventional Lexus logic. It competes admirably with the C63 AMG, M3 and RS4 and is an outstanding entry into the performance arena for Lexus. It is a fantastic car that, imo, is the perfect balance between luxury, daily driver and performance beast.

I have zero complaints with mine, but I have been contemplating what am I going to do when I'm ready to replace my IS F? Lexus doesn't have a progressive model to move to and doesn't appear that it will be getting one. The LF-A is a nice idea but that's a huge jump to a $200K car. Lexus doesn't have anything to compete against an M5, RS6, or CLS63 AMG.

We stuck with Lexus because of its strong entry into the performance market, and are considering an RX (or 2) in the spring when our current lease is up, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to stay in a Lexus after being spoiled with the IS F.

So "lost it's way"....imo...no, just searching for a new path