Acura confirms plans for a future V8
10-20-08, 08:19 PM
#31
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The majority of luxury cars sold are RWD throughout the world. AWD is a great feature to have but in America, it seems to be some "panic" mode sales device. Nothing snow tires can't fix in most cases.
AWD also adds weight and complexity, thus hurting MPG. I commend Acura for making SH-AWD optional on the TL though
, I just don't know how many people willl spend 40k on a TL, especially one that looks like a giant Megatron turd.
Many Acura faithful asked for a RWD or AWD TL, they got a AWD TL and they made it huge and made it so ugly, hardly anyone wants to move up to it.
They killed what could have been a no brainer.
AWD also adds weight and complexity, thus hurting MPG. I commend Acura for making SH-AWD optional on the TL though
, I just don't know how many people willl spend 40k on a TL, especially one that looks like a giant Megatron turd. Many Acura faithful asked for a RWD or AWD TL, they got a AWD TL and they made it huge and made it so ugly, hardly anyone wants to move up to it.
They killed what could have been a no brainer.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that nobody is going to buy the new TL. As I believe you said in another thread, people will still buy the car becuase it's the TL, the best selling mid-sized luxo/sport sedan in it's class (you were referencing the E-class). Just look at how "ugly" the new Accord sedan is, probably the ugliest in it's class (altima/sonata/camry/malibu/passat), yet peole still buy it for the name. I suspect the same will happen with the TL.
10-20-08, 08:26 PM
#32
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Well yes, AWD most certainly does impeed on mileage figures by adding weight, but complexity could be questionable. Yes, the active Haldex systems (TT/R32) and SH-AWD are run by computers, but regular Quattro for example is a Torsen system, so it regulates torque based purely on mechanical inputs. As far as AWD being useless, Subaru's system as well as Audi Quattro / VW 4Motion are actually very good. As far as snow tires, a RWD car in snow is still RWD. FWD vehicles like Acuras are much better suited for snowy conditions. But yet AWD systems like Quattro still hold their weight in gold for rough climates/enviroments. SH-AWD is very FWD bias (70/30), and it has never been proven as a system to negotiate rough enviroments. Great for the track, but Quattro (of which the latest generation is 60/40 rear-bias) is more useable for the true purpose of AWD (rough enviroment). I think it's important to mention that the TL is still, at heart, a FWD car, with a big engine overhanging the front wheels (the same problem the A4 has always had in comparison to BMW's 3).
I wouldn't go as far as to say that nobody is going to buy the new TL. As I believe you said in another thread, people will still buy the car becuase it's the TL, the best selling mid-sized luxo/sport sedan in it's class (you were referencing the E-class). Just look at how "ugly" the new Accord sedan is, probably the ugliest in it's class (altima/sonata/camry/malibu/passat), yet peole still buy it for the name. I suspect the same will happen with the TL.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that nobody is going to buy the new TL. As I believe you said in another thread, people will still buy the car becuase it's the TL, the best selling mid-sized luxo/sport sedan in it's class (you were referencing the E-class). Just look at how "ugly" the new Accord sedan is, probably the ugliest in it's class (altima/sonata/camry/malibu/passat), yet peole still buy it for the name. I suspect the same will happen with the TL.
Check out the Acura forum(s). This is complete reversal from the last 2 generations. People moved up from the old TL to the new TL and it attracted tons of Accord owners. The new one is not selling at all. Dealers are already desperatly painting the grills, acknowledging how awful they are. Current TL owners simply hate the new TL. This was not what they wanted.
There are plenty of Acura/Honda faithful for maybe 4k units at first but I truly expect sales around the 3-4k range a month. Far from the 5k+ of the last TL.
The bad economy mixed with okay fuel economy mixed with ugly= bad results. The all new TSX is selling poorly, I don't see the TL doing any better.
10-20-08, 08:38 PM
#33
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Yeah I have an Accord, and those forums were initially beyond angry at the design (and the fugly Pilot's), but eventually the coolaid gets digested and the fans come around.
That painted grill makes the car look 10x better though. Car is still too bloated, however, plus it doesn't have very many revolutionary high-tech features for a brand that says they are all about integrating high/tech with high performance. It seems to me the new German and Lexus cars have more "high" tech (lane departure systems, adaptive cruise control, automatic parking aids, adaptive lighting, active damping/chassis control, etc, etc.). The only innovative features I see as far as tech is the doppler map overlay. ELS sound system is nice, but it's not like the stuff offered in the competition (Bang & Olufsen, Harmon Kardon Logic 7) is somehow inferior. As far as driving dynamics, yes Acura does well, surpassing the Lexus ES (which is similarly sized), but still failes to really de-throne the 3-Series and obviously cannot match the torque advantage of the 2.0T/335i. The TL has always had "light" steering in comparison to bmw/audi/mb as well.
So in the end, I think the TL is a nice car for the segment, has a lot of features for the money, yet fails to add up to the high-tech/high-performance equation that Acura is selling this car on. Nothing really revolutionary, beyond the SH-AWD system, which is nice.
That painted grill makes the car look 10x better though. Car is still too bloated, however, plus it doesn't have very many revolutionary high-tech features for a brand that says they are all about integrating high/tech with high performance. It seems to me the new German and Lexus cars have more "high" tech (lane departure systems, adaptive cruise control, automatic parking aids, adaptive lighting, active damping/chassis control, etc, etc.). The only innovative features I see as far as tech is the doppler map overlay. ELS sound system is nice, but it's not like the stuff offered in the competition (Bang & Olufsen, Harmon Kardon Logic 7) is somehow inferior. As far as driving dynamics, yes Acura does well, surpassing the Lexus ES (which is similarly sized), but still failes to really de-throne the 3-Series and obviously cannot match the torque advantage of the 2.0T/335i. The TL has always had "light" steering in comparison to bmw/audi/mb as well.
So in the end, I think the TL is a nice car for the segment, has a lot of features for the money, yet fails to add up to the high-tech/high-performance equation that Acura is selling this car on. Nothing really revolutionary, beyond the SH-AWD system, which is nice.
10-20-08, 09:29 PM
#34
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Exactly, no one said anything about them going under. THough if they did, no one would really miss it. Yes the RDX is a turbo, it gets V-8 economy with the speed of a V-6. Yeah. They weren't even smart enough to fit the intercooler in FRONT of the engine so they could somehow fit it in the TSX.
The only thing proven is Acura's track record. I never said they are going under and they are not going under from a bankruptcy standpoint.
They are a complete luxury afterthought and a brand for loyal Honda owners to move up to. Thanks for proving MY point.
This is not the Acura we knew in the 1990s. Man up and admit "acura is freaking lost right now".
The HYUNDAI GENESIS, a HYUNDAI > Acura. So what you can get some cute NAV and SH-AWD no owners use or go to the track with.
In 20 years, we have seen Acura become the first luxury branded badge from Japan and now get passed by every luxury car company outside of Saab.
Hyundai is laughing right now.
If you are going to come and just defend a brand that can't even defend itself, please be their court jester.
The only thing proven is Acura's track record. I never said they are going under and they are not going under from a bankruptcy standpoint.
They are a complete luxury afterthought and a brand for loyal Honda owners to move up to. Thanks for proving MY point.
This is not the Acura we knew in the 1990s. Man up and admit "acura is freaking lost right now".
The HYUNDAI GENESIS, a HYUNDAI > Acura. So what you can get some cute NAV and SH-AWD no owners use or go to the track with.
In 20 years, we have seen Acura become the first luxury branded badge from Japan and now get passed by every luxury car company outside of Saab.
Hyundai is laughing right now.
If you are going to come and just defend a brand that can't even defend itself, please be their court jester.
Let me translate my post for you
'A lot of you certainly appear to want Acura to fail miserably' - i.e. you WANT them to fail. I'm not arguing if they've actually failed or not here.
'but I for one want them to get their act together and get back into the market segment they once pioneered for the japanese industry' i.e. I concur they have lost their way and need to get back on track
you - they've failed miserably (insert your usual gleeful 'its the end of the world for acura' rant here)
me - Acura is not going under, and are far from failing miserably, however they are definitely not on track right now.
10-21-08, 07:03 PM
#36
Honda is fantastic with engines and transmission but if they want to promote Acura and its "Advance" motto, they better come up with better innovations. Sure the RL has CMBS but it's only on the RL and that's just one current technological feature. What about power reclining rear seats? Do something cool with the navigation system and the screen. Push the boundaries.
10-21-08, 07:23 PM
#37
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I think I need the cliff notes or something. I have absolutely no doubt Honda can make a V8, and a darned good one at that. But I am trying to read the original press release and figure out what they are saying. So will this V8 be dropped into the current RL? Will this engine be in the RL replacement or will there be a model introduced with the V8 that will above the RL in 2010?
If the V8 gets dropped into the more or less current RL, is that what anyone thinks will pop those RL sales numbers? If the V8 isn't going into the RL, there are plenty of ways to up the power of the V6 if the drivetrain is up to it, assuming that is what is holding it back. Which I am not convinced is the case.
I am most definitely not dumping on Acura, I would love to see some more choice for the consumer come into the market. But enough with the goblledygook and hints, just tell us what you are doing. It's not like sales of the current RL are going to plummet from their current lofty numbers if we knew what the Acura plans are for a) a real large luxury sedan and b) a V8.
If the V8 gets dropped into the more or less current RL, is that what anyone thinks will pop those RL sales numbers? If the V8 isn't going into the RL, there are plenty of ways to up the power of the V6 if the drivetrain is up to it, assuming that is what is holding it back. Which I am not convinced is the case.
I am most definitely not dumping on Acura, I would love to see some more choice for the consumer come into the market. But enough with the goblledygook and hints, just tell us what you are doing. It's not like sales of the current RL are going to plummet from their current lofty numbers if we knew what the Acura plans are for a) a real large luxury sedan and b) a V8.
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