bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Congrats on the C350! And you're exactly right, it's the DETAILS on a Mercedes that impress. The subtleties, things thought about over decades that come through, not necessarily in a test drive, but over time.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

nice review. but i also think pluses and minuses should be adjusted according to the kind of cars you are reviewing.

for example, if it's a flagship and has loud exhaust, that's silly. but if it's a ferrari and the exhaust is dead quiet, that's retarded and it can't be in the "pluses" section, right?

on the other hand, i do think the c63 interior is pretty disappointing. i am sure i am spoiled by lexus setup, but in the e63 and cls63, i feel the interior is quite a bit more upscale. the c, just off

mmarshall

That was unintentional....trust me. I noticed the star pattern was a little off but couldn't figure out what it was. My apologies to anyone who was...or is.....offended by that. I'm not going to bother replacing it, though, because it's already been re-imaged and quoted.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I'm sure no one was offended. I got a good chuckle out of it. Added a nice whimsical touch to your, as usual, excellent review!

mmarshall

Thanks, Henry.

Agreed. I take that into consideration when I list plusses and minuses. While a sport sedan may have a slightly louder exhaust than a traditional luxury sedan, it shouldn't sound like a Ferrari. The M3, for example, at least to my ears, didn't seem to idle or run as loud as the C63....but it has been several months since I drove it. The IS-F, as I remember it, was loud when you poured the power on, but idled quietly.


True to an extent. But the E63 and CLS63 have even more confusing gadgets on the dash and console to distract you. To my eyes, the new Jag XF interior really spoils you..........that's one of the best interiors I've seen in a long time, though, like Mercedes, it has some quirky controls.

mmarshall

Fine. All opinions welcomed.....and accepted.

I know that some people, like you, don't have problems with complex dash electronics and I-Drive-type controllers. I take that into account when I do a write-up. Others, however, do........including many professional auto-testers and auto journalists; people who drive new cars for a living, not just people like me who review new cars in their spare time.

I'm with you on the leather issue. At one time, it seemed like most or all upmarket cars had the same smooth leather you now only see in Lexuses, some Infinitis, and the AMG-spec leather package here. For one thing, the Connally firm that did the exquisite Jaguar leather went out of buisness (I didn't know that until the Jag people told me the other day). Now, however, many "leather" interiors, at least IMO, don't really look, feel, or smell like traditional leather...they seem to be a cross between vinyl and rough, knitted/textured leather. Of course, some of that may be done for seat friction. You tend to slide around in butter-smooth leather unless you have sharp side bolsters like the C63 has....and a person my size was on the absolute limit of what could fit between those bolsters.

My guess is, like so many other things in interiors these days, that what we're seeing is cost-cutting to cheaper grades to save money and making the "nice" grades expensive options.....if available at all. Lexus and Infiniti, though, still seem to put the good stuff in........standard.

And, last, I know this will sound like heresy to some of you guys (so don't start throwing stones at me)............but, given the choice, for several reasons, I actually prefer CLOTH.

2002GGPIS3

Great review, I really like how you focus on little details, like the turn signal and the spare tire. I have read numrous reviews in magazines and on the web, of the C63 AMG, IS-F, new M3 and RS4 and there always is a diffrent winner. So my question is for day to day driving how would you rank them? I just think many writers get obessed with the power and speed of these cars and forget little day to day things, like controls, room etc.

RXSF

more on the leather. it does make it more durable though. i mean this tough material should retain its look longer, and shouldnt get those leather lines and cracks that happen to even a 2 year old lexus leather seat. either way, the seats in most MBs are uncomfortable.

more on the controller too. my dad and mom came over and they were so confused by everything! lol they were complaining and mumbling about how this car is for the newer generation who uses computers etc etc. (they arent tech savvy, didnt grow up in this age). anyways, i told them to get used to it because lexus will eventually move to this type of interface.

CDNROCKIES

A very good review mmarshal, thank you.

I came extremely close to buying this car but there are a couple points that I disagree with:

1.This car is designed with the dual personality of a daily driver/race car which is the reason for no full size spare. It is an effort to save weight in the car and space.

2.The exhaust in a car like this is a huge plus. These are big V8 engines that SHOULD roar when you start them up.

3.Why is a tight engine compartment a negative? 99% of drivers will never be under the hood anyways.

Could you please explain how the 335xi would be a consideration over this car? Isn't this car targeting a very specific audience that leans heavily towards performance? So wouldn't the competitors be the M3, RS4 or IS F?

Again, thank you for your review and discussing this

rdgdawg

As we've all come to expect from MM... spot-on review...

mmarshall

Thanks.

I focus on small details, stem-to-stern, because most of the reviews you read in auto mags and newspapers dont. My reviews are primarily designed to show you what you get for your money, in detail, not 0-60 or track lap times.

I would actually take the BMW 335xi or Jaguar XF before any of these (they cost less, and, to me, are just as pleasing to drive), but going strictly by the list you mention, I like the RS-4 for its AWD (which is important to me) and its interior. Second would be M3 for its superb chassis and steering, but I don't like its build quality....the one I reviewed had several significant defects. Then the IS-F...my only reral complaint is the ultra-stiff ride that bucks the car up and down over bumps like a porpoise. Then the C63....it is a superb sports sedan but costs too much, and has a record of unreliability.

mmarshall

Thanks, friend. Not everyone always agrees with my conclusions, but I always give it my best shot.

mmarshall

Not having a car of this type myself for long-term-testing, I'll take your word for it.

I sympathize with your mom and dad. In my view, they are correct.

The last thing on earth I want in a car I own and drive is an I-Drive-type controller. More and more accidents, today, are being caused by drivers trying to drive and fiddle with electronic programs at the same time. Cell phones are only part of the problem.

primecut

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the review. The comments on details are very enjoyable.

When did you test the IS-F? Do you know if it was a full production model? I had a family friend who had the privilege of driving the pre-production IS-F, and he also complained that the stiff ride was unbearable. I believe this was done because Lexus tuned the pre-production models for the track. They were also significantly lower in ride-height. It seems that Lexus has softened up the ride since then. When you get the chance, I definitely recommend driving it again to see if there is a difference.

mmarshall

Sure. Anytime.

With 445 ft-lbs. of torque and those big tires for handling, I don't see where a couple of extra pounds in the trunk, especially with today's light alloy wheels, is going to make any difference. It's simple cheapness in cost-cutting, that's all, on a $66,000 car.

This is a Mercedes sport-luxury sedan, not a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, where you would expect a roar.

I agree, but having everything crammed in underhood like sardines also makes it rough for the service people and technicians, and increases the chance of THEM making an error while they are working.

Yes, I agree the 335xi is not quite as brute-powerful or as hard-edged as these cars, but in terms of what it gives you for the money, I think it is a better buy, dollar-for-dollar, has a superb chassis, has 300 turbo HP/torque (that's actually slightly more torque than the M3's 295), has an AWD xi version if desired (The C63, M3, and IS-F don't), and costs 47K in the version I reviewed. The IS-F, IMO, has a rear suspension that is far too stiff on rough roads, making it bounce up and down like a porpoise, and the M3 and C63 cost too much. The RS-4, agreed, has AWD, but it also costs an arm and a leg.

I was extremely impressed with what the 335i did offer for the price, and, while not cheap, I felt it substantially exceeded the cars you mentioned for dollar value. It also is far more civilized on rough roads, with the typical superb BMW chassis ride/handling balance, particularly with its Sport package....the handling approaches that of the M3, while retaining a noticeably smoother ride.

I know there are those who disagree with me on this, especially on the 335i vs. M3 issue, but I've driven both cars and that's the way I see it, at least for daily driving and general street use. The M3, yes, would be better on a track (mainly on sharp curves), but the 335, IMO, is much better....and more cost-effective.......for general street use.



Of course. Glad to help.