Review: 2009 Audi A4 2.0T Tiptronic Quattro
10-30-08, 11:32 AM
#31
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I hear a lot about front engine/RWD cars being able to handle slippery winter conditions with traction control, ESP, winter tires, etc.... but my experience, with some 40 years of driving, is that, all else equal, FWD is superior to RWD, and AWD is clearly superior to them both. Chains or studded tires can help a lot on RWD cars, but many states outlaw studs, and chains can be a pain in the a** to put on and off. However, the type of tire, as you suggest, can make a difference. Some AWD cars with summer-only tires, like the Evo, STi, etc.... are little better in snow than RWD or FWD unless you put on all-season or winter tires.
10-30-08, 11:57 AM
#32
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I hear a lot about front engine/RWD cars being able to handle slippery winter conditions with traction control, ESP, winter tires, etc.... but my experience, with some 40 years of driving, is that, all else equal, FWD is superior to RWD, and AWD is clearly superior to them both. Chains or studded tires can help a lot on RWD cars, but many states outlaw studs, and chains can be a pain in the a** to put on and off. However, the type of tire, as you suggest, can make a difference. Some AWD cars with summer-only tires, like the Evo, STi, etc.... are little better in snow than RWD or FWD unless you put on all-season or winter tires.
10-30-08, 01:57 PM
#34
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10-30-08, 02:25 PM
#35
The IS250/350 has less body roll, a slightly firmer ride, a less sophisticated chassis, less road noise, and more cheap plastic parts in its interior (but the standard interior leather is better). It also has a sardine-can rear seat. But its mechanics and electronics are likely to be more reliable in the long run, it has slightly quicker-responding brakes, easier-to-use dash controls, a slightly better-sounding stereo, a better warranty, and it runs quieter.
The A4 has superb interior materials, a more sophisticated chassis (but still not the equal of BMWs), more torque, with both the 2.0T and 3.2, than the IS250, more and better safety features, more room inside, and more solid sheet metal. But it has some complex/frustrating controls, less reliable electronics, and can get way pricey with expensive options.
Both cars have excellent paint jobs, proven AWD options, good fit/finish inside and out, and generally good handling....the A4 has slightly more body roll. The A4 is a better bet if you want an AWD system with some power.....the IS250AWD, with its mandatory automatic, is somewhat slug-like.
The A4 has superb interior materials, a more sophisticated chassis (but still not the equal of BMWs), more torque, with both the 2.0T and 3.2, than the IS250, more and better safety features, more room inside, and more solid sheet metal. But it has some complex/frustrating controls, less reliable electronics, and can get way pricey with expensive options.
Both cars have excellent paint jobs, proven AWD options, good fit/finish inside and out, and generally good handling....the A4 has slightly more body roll. The A4 is a better bet if you want an AWD system with some power.....the IS250AWD, with its mandatory automatic, is somewhat slug-like.
There are a number of auto marketers and designers that I'd like to give a taste of that big size-15 shoe to, but prudence, manners, and courtesy prevents it. 
10-30-08, 07:36 PM
#36
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Thanks for the review MM! Well done. I got to check out the car last month as we are planning on getting a 2.0T Premium (Canada Spec) on January. You pointed out lots of things i missed when checking out the car (ie. I didn't see where the battery was located). Overall, i agree with everything you said. Audi as always, has excellent fit and finish. I don't really agree with your opinion on the grille, which imo looks fantastic...but then again styling depends on the eye of the beholder.
I was slightly confused when you said that it is a mild redesign, as I know it uses an entirely new platform called Audi MLP or Modular Longitudinal Platform which it shares with the A5 and Q5.
I was slightly confused when you said that it is a mild redesign, as I know it uses an entirely new platform called Audi MLP or Modular Longitudinal Platform which it shares with the A5 and Q5.
10-31-08, 06:33 AM
#37
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Sure. Anytime 
Congragulations on your purchase. PM me when you get it and I'll send you the standard new-car break-in rules, if you need or want them.
Yes, it's ridiculous where they put the battery. You have to clean out the trunk, pull up the cover, and take the entire temporary spare-tire assembly out just to access it. Of course, with today's batteries, you don't have to do as much with them as in the old days, when you were constantly cleaning the terminals and refilling the cells with water. A number of cars put the battery next to the spare tire; this is the first one I've seen where it is buried underneath.
I agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder........if you like the Audi grilles, you'll love the new ones that Mitsubishi put on the Lancer series. They're the same basic shape, but even more gaping, and the headlights look like an angry cat.
You're correct....I didn't describe that very well. I addressed that in a later post from another CL member.
I got to check out the car last month as we are planning on getting a 2.0T Premium (Canada Spec) on January. You pointed out lots of things i missed when checking out the car (ie. I didn't see where the battery was located). Overall, i agree with everything you said. Audi as always, has excellent fit and finish. I don't really agree with your opinion on the grille, which imo looks fantastic...but then again styling depends on the eye of the beholder.
PM me when you get it and I'll send you the standard new-car break-in rules, if you need or want them.Yes, it's ridiculous where they put the battery. You have to clean out the trunk, pull up the cover, and take the entire temporary spare-tire assembly out just to access it. Of course, with today's batteries, you don't have to do as much with them as in the old days, when you were constantly cleaning the terminals and refilling the cells with water. A number of cars put the battery next to the spare tire; this is the first one I've seen where it is buried underneath.
I agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder........if you like the Audi grilles, you'll love the new ones that Mitsubishi put on the Lancer series. They're the same basic shape, but even more gaping, and the headlights look like an angry cat.
I was slightly confused when you said that it is a mild redesign, as I know it uses an entirely new platform called Audi MLP or Modular Longitudinal Platform which it shares with the A5 and Q5.
10-31-08, 07:16 AM
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11-19-08, 06:53 PM
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MM,
I appreciate your well written and thoughtful review. I agree with many of your points however I offer counterpoints to a few of the negatives you had.
First, the issues you had with the MMI controller are relevant if you are writing a rental car review. Of course new control interfaces are going to be confusing at first. This is true in any product. In a rental car, you don't really want to deal with learning a new system. But when you own the car, you learn it. The Audi MMI system is easily learned in a shot period of time. After that, its use becomes fairly intuitive. The degree and breadth of control you have with the **** and the 4 main buttons is far simpler than if you instead had dozens of buttons to accomplish the same functions. Is the Audi MMI solution perfect? No, but it is relatively elegant compared to many of the solutions offered by the competition.
Second, monitoring oil levels electronically has a lot of advantages. It's easy (much easier than using a dipstick). It keeps an electronic history of oil levels to prove you were keeping it at the proper level. And it is more accurate because it eliminates several tolerances that exist with the good old dipstick system.
Third, complaining about the location of the battery was a reach. Locating it centered under the spare tire is a brilliant location. It's unused space, it's in the back to offset engine eight, and it's centered. Since it rarely needs to be accessed, the slight inconvenience of removing the (lightweight) spare is negligible.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the items you complained about suggest you are a little resistant to change. Each of these can be viewed as changes for the better. But they are changes nevertheless, and to some change is not always welcomed.
Great review otherwise!
I appreciate your well written and thoughtful review. I agree with many of your points however I offer counterpoints to a few of the negatives you had.
First, the issues you had with the MMI controller are relevant if you are writing a rental car review. Of course new control interfaces are going to be confusing at first. This is true in any product. In a rental car, you don't really want to deal with learning a new system. But when you own the car, you learn it. The Audi MMI system is easily learned in a shot period of time. After that, its use becomes fairly intuitive. The degree and breadth of control you have with the **** and the 4 main buttons is far simpler than if you instead had dozens of buttons to accomplish the same functions. Is the Audi MMI solution perfect? No, but it is relatively elegant compared to many of the solutions offered by the competition.
Second, monitoring oil levels electronically has a lot of advantages. It's easy (much easier than using a dipstick). It keeps an electronic history of oil levels to prove you were keeping it at the proper level. And it is more accurate because it eliminates several tolerances that exist with the good old dipstick system.
Third, complaining about the location of the battery was a reach. Locating it centered under the spare tire is a brilliant location. It's unused space, it's in the back to offset engine eight, and it's centered. Since it rarely needs to be accessed, the slight inconvenience of removing the (lightweight) spare is negligible.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the items you complained about suggest you are a little resistant to change. Each of these can be viewed as changes for the better. But they are changes nevertheless, and to some change is not always welcomed.
Great review otherwise!
11-19-08, 07:34 PM
#40
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Thanks.
I agree with many of your points however I offer counterpoints to a few of the negatives you had.
First, the issues you had with the MMI controller are relevant if you are writing a rental car review. Of course new control interfaces are going to be confusing at first. This is true in any product. In a rental car, you don't really want to deal with learning a new system. But when you own the car, you learn it. The Audi MMI system is easily learned in a shot period of time. After that, its use becomes fairly intuitive. The degree and breadth of control you have with the **** and the 4 main buttons is far simpler than if you instead had dozens of buttons to accomplish the same functions. Is the Audi MMI solution perfect? No, but it is relatively elegant compared to many of the solutions offered by the competition.
Second, monitoring oil levels electronically has a lot of advantages. It's easy (much easier than using a dipstick). It keeps an electronic history of oil levels to prove you were keeping it at the proper level. And it is more accurate because it eliminates several tolerances that exist with the good old dipstick system.
Third, complaining about the location of the battery was a reach. Locating it centered under the spare tire is a brilliant location. It's unused space, it's in the back to offset engine eight, and it's centered. Since it rarely needs to be accessed, the slight inconvenience of removing the (lightweight) spare is negligible.
And WHY are hood compartments often too small? Many reasons, of course, but a significant one is the obsession some companies have with droop-down hoods and the "aero" look up front. Those wedge/bullet-shapes up front can eat into a lot of space efficiency, compared to more squared-off, conservative designs.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the items you complained about suggest you are a little resistant to change. Each of these can be viewed as changes for the better. But they are changes nevertheless, and to some change is not always welcomed.
As far as being "resistant to change", there are a lot of things on cars now that I think are genuine and useful advances. Others, IMO, are frivolous and unneeded. Things like carburators, breaker-point ignition, non-clearcoat paint, drum brakes, recirculating-ball steering, etc..... I'm glad they are all gone. But things like El Cheapo plastic interiors, I-Drive-type controllers, everything under the hood sealed off, donut/temporary spare tires, and distracting electronic features while you're trying to drive and keep your eyes on the road, IMO, are not my idea of "advancement".
One must remember that the Pontiac Aztek was also a symbol of "change".....and look what happened.
So, I'm all for change where I think change is needed. For example, here's one thing that I've wanted to see on manual-transmission cars for years, and the auto manufacturers STILL have not adopted it: a dash light to indicate what gear you are in so that you don't skip a shift. You only find an indicator light on automatics or automanuals.....not on a clutch-operated manual. It's especially important on a manual-transmission because you can damage or ruin an engine if you're coming out of fifth or sixth at higher speeds, think you are choosing fourth, and hit second instead....you've instantly gone over redline. Ferrari and Lotus, at least, have a slotted-gate to show you what gear the lever is in, which is a reasonable substitute.....but Ferraris and Lotuses are not cars that are bought by the everyday car shopper.
Great review otherwise!
I put a lot of time and effort into them. More are coming up.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-20-08 at 06:13 AM.
11-20-08, 03:20 AM
#41
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MM,
Thanks for the reply. It's good to find someone who can remain objective in the face of a rebuttal.
If you ever get a chance to drive a stick-shift Audi S5, you will find exactly this feature on the dash. There is a digital gear position indicator in the information display between the speedo and tach. It even offers upshift and downshift suggestions next to the digit and the suggestions are smart in the sense that it will, for example, suggest upshifting from 4th to 6th if throttle load is light. I suspect this feature might be found in all new stick-shift Audis but I have only recently driven the S5.
Thanks for the reply. It's good to find someone who can remain objective in the face of a rebuttal.
So, I'm all for change where I think change is needed. For example, here's one thing that I've wanted to see on manual-transmission cars for years, and the auto manufacturers STILL have not adopted it: a dash light to indicate what gear you are in so that you don't skip a shift. You only find an indicator light on automatics or automanuals.....not on a clutch-operated manual.
11-20-08, 05:56 AM
#43
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By the standards of upmarket cars (Audi is an upmarket brand), yes. Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, for example, offer 4/50 bumper-to-bumper and 6/70 on the drivetrain. Even Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and the Korean brands, low-priced nameplates, offer up to 10/100 on the drivetrain, although that coverage may be limited and subject to conditions. Audi only gives you 4/50 on the whole car, including the drivetrain. That, IMO, is second-rate for a premium nameplate.
11-20-08, 06:09 AM
#44
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I try to reply to most, if not all, of the questions or comments my reviews generate, unless that comment is deliberately insulting or an attempt to be facecious (which, though not common, happens once in a while). Most of them are legitimate questions/comments, and deserve a courteous reply.
If you ever get a chance to drive a stick-shift Audi S5, you will find exactly this feature on the dash. There is a digital gear position indicator in the information display between the speedo and tach. It even offers upshift and downshift suggestions next to the digit and the suggestions are smart in the sense that it will, for example, suggest upshifting from 4th to 6th if throttle load is light. I suspect this feature might be found in all new stick-shift Audis but I have only recently driven the S5.
Didn't know that Audi finally put gear-position indicators on the S5.....I haven't driven one yet. Still, that's a good sign 
.....something I've felt has been needed for years. Like I said above, Ferrari and Lotus have a nice gate to show you what gear you're in, but a dash indicator, IMO, is better.The upshift/downshift indicators you mention, IF they are the type I'm thinking of, are probably just fuel-economy gadgets. I can't say for sure with the S5, as I haven't driven it, but cars in the past that had those up/down arrows programmed them for maximum fuel economy. If you actually followed them, you saved gas, but ended up lugging the engine at low RPMs.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-20-08 at 06:14 AM.
11-20-08, 08:43 AM
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By the standards of upmarket cars (Audi is an upmarket brand), yes. Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, for example, offer 4/50 bumper-to-bumper and 6/70 on the drivetrain. Even Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and the Korean brands, low-priced nameplates, offer up to 10/100 on the drivetrain, although that coverage may be limited and subject to conditions. Audi only gives you 4/50 on the whole car, including the drivetrain. That, IMO, is second-rate for a premium nameplate.
Years ago, I remember arguing with a chief engineer where I work about this. He was convinced Chrysler products were the most reliable cars on the road because they came with a 10/100 drivetrain warranty. I made the marketing argument. We never came eye to eye on it. It's hard to convince people about some things.