Breaking News: GM posts $4.2Billion loss and warns that it is almost out of money
11-07-08, 10:55 AM
#16
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this isn't a surprise. The writing has been on the wall for over 5 years ago.
And the difference with Nissan and GM is when things got rough for Nissan, they brought in new management. While GM would continue falsely promising everything would get better refusing to make changes to unbelievably arrogant management.
Remember when Lutz and his fanbois were running around spouting off nonsense about how the Toyota Prius and hybrid system was junk and doomed to failure.
GM seems more interested in parading the Corvette around to magazines then adapting to changing market conditions.
And the difference with Nissan and GM is when things got rough for Nissan, they brought in new management. While GM would continue falsely promising everything would get better refusing to make changes to unbelievably arrogant management.
Remember when Lutz and his fanbois were running around spouting off nonsense about how the Toyota Prius and hybrid system was junk and doomed to failure.
GM seems more interested in parading the Corvette around to magazines then adapting to changing market conditions.
11-07-08, 11:03 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
I wish that the gov'ts would bail MY businesses out if the economy is hurting them (which it is!)....my guess is that there response would be "you ran it into the ground and wasted your money so too bad"....why do these major corporations get a free pass while their executives collect 7 figure paycheques?
11-07-08, 11:39 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
11-07-08, 01:07 PM
#20
The problem with much of America is that no one wants to plan for the future anymore. The furthest anyone is willing to "plan" for is the next fiscal quarter and answering to the share holders. How long has it taken Toyota to post any profits on the Prius? They used it as an investment into guiding the future of Toyota. GM and the other Big 2 concentrated on trucks and SUVs. And while they had their time and brought in lots of revenue, what did GM and other American companies do with it? Invest in more gas guzzlers. Did they really not see the writing on the wall? Even before the most recent gas price hikes, did they not learn from the 70s? Did they really think cheap gas was going to be the status quo forever? Since I am on the forum, I love the Corvette ZR1 and the CTS-V as much as the next guy, but if they had been investing in attractive fuel efficient cars more than the next Escalade, maybe they would be in better financial position now. I truly believe that with right leadership, any American company can be as innovative and superior in any industry it wants. Obviously, I talk about more than just the auto industry. Anyway, it is a shame as GM did really seem to be turning a corner in the last several years in terms of product quality. Maybe just restructure. Caddy and Chevy? Get rid of everything else? I dunno...
Last edited by T0ked; 11-07-08 at 01:14 PM.
11-07-08, 01:08 PM
#21
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11-07-08, 01:08 PM
#22
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I wish we could finally stop this maddness.
The argument for bailing them out goes like this: If we don't bail them out, 2 million people lose their jobs. That in turn kills the economy. Since there are pensions involved, the government has to step in anyway and the taxpayers have to pay. So no matter what we want or do, the tax payers are ultimatley going to have to pay billions upon billions of dollars to the UAW anyway, and supposedly it will be cheaper to keep propping them up then letting them die.
The argument for bailing them out goes like this: If we don't bail them out, 2 million people lose their jobs. That in turn kills the economy. Since there are pensions involved, the government has to step in anyway and the taxpayers have to pay. So no matter what we want or do, the tax payers are ultimatley going to have to pay billions upon billions of dollars to the UAW anyway, and supposedly it will be cheaper to keep propping them up then letting them die.
You have no idea how mad I am at the "Detroit 3" their cars are junk and they've saddled us with tons of debt if we buy their junk or not.
Malibu > Camry
Tahoe Hybrid > ??
Corvette > * (for type/money)
American pickups > *
Cadillac CTS > * (for type/money)
Lincoln MKS > Lexus ES and probably GS too
Anyway, your statement is far too sweeping.
But yes, the big three and auto unions in Detroit over time tied themselves in knots and a deadly symbiotic embrace. I blame bad management, but I really blame the unions who got SO GREEDY AND LAZY they tied their golden geese up in razor wire, rope, and chains.
I'll never support the US auto makers, they are a drain on society at this point.
11-07-08, 02:11 PM
#23
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GM is the only American automaker I see that has recently released some great vehicles, Cadillac CTS and Chevrolet Camaro and Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Sky, to list a few. So I think they are doing what they can attempting to make a turnaround.
11-07-08, 02:25 PM
#24
Dysfunctional Veteran
I hope this doesnt go down like i think it will...I have shares in GM, My mother-in-Law works for Saturn, my uncle works for GM at their Truck plant in Janesville WI...
11-07-08, 03:23 PM
#25
Good assessment. It's only "fair" right, to spread the wealth for these "working families"?
Uh, many things incorrect or illogical about this statement, but I'll start with "their cars are junk" which is absurd.
Malibu > Camry
Tahoe Hybrid > ??
Corvette > * (for type/money)
American pickups > *
Cadillac CTS > * (for type/money)
Lincoln MKS > Lexus ES and probably GS too
Anyway, your statement is far too sweeping.
But yes, the big three and auto unions in Detroit over time tied themselves in knots and a deadly symbiotic embrace. I blame bad management, but I really blame the unions who got SO GREEDY AND LAZY they tied their golden geese up in razor wire, rope, and chains.
Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but Toyota's stock is at an 8 year low too.
Uh, many things incorrect or illogical about this statement, but I'll start with "their cars are junk" which is absurd.
Malibu > Camry
Tahoe Hybrid > ??
Corvette > * (for type/money)
American pickups > *
Cadillac CTS > * (for type/money)
Lincoln MKS > Lexus ES and probably GS too
Anyway, your statement is far too sweeping.
But yes, the big three and auto unions in Detroit over time tied themselves in knots and a deadly symbiotic embrace. I blame bad management, but I really blame the unions who got SO GREEDY AND LAZY they tied their golden geese up in razor wire, rope, and chains.
Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but Toyota's stock is at an 8 year low too.
And Toyota is going to have a bit less than 10 billion in profits this year. Really bad for them.
And no, it is not only UAW thats the problem - problem always was and will stay that they make mostly subpar vehicles that break a lot and that their customers lost confidence in their products. Oh yeah, they add some shine to the interior, call it all new and turning the page, but after 2 years people realize that it is same old GM.
Another problem is that they advertise vehicles that are going to be sold 2-3-4-5 years from now, instead of right now. Volt and Cruze are going to change the world in 2010, while in 2008, your sales are 40% down for the month sucka.
They need to fire everyone that works at top level at GM, Bob Lutz first and hire competent people who will do what needs to be done. And what they dont need is shiny korean daewoo engineering.
11-07-08, 03:48 PM
#26
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11-07-08, 04:18 PM
#28
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you are pointing your opinion on 4-5 vehicles out of 50 that GM makes. Did you read Edmunds review on longterm Silverado and Enclave? Both had failed transmission early on, and no wonder GM reliability is actually going down.
And Toyota is going to have a bit less than 10 billion in profits this year. Really bad for them.
And no, it is not only UAW thats the problem - problem always was and will stay that they make mostly subpar vehicles that break a lot and that their customers lost confidence in their products. Oh yeah, they add some shine to the interior, call it all new and turning the page, but after 2 years people realize that it is same old GM.
Another problem is that they advertise vehicles that are going to be sold 2-3-4-5 years from now, instead of right now. Volt and Cruze are going to change the world in 2010, while in 2008, your sales are 40% down for the month sucka.
They need to fire everyone that works at top level at GM, Bob Lutz first and hire competent people who will do what needs to be done. And what they dont need is shiny korean daewoo engineering.
And Toyota is going to have a bit less than 10 billion in profits this year. Really bad for them.
And no, it is not only UAW thats the problem - problem always was and will stay that they make mostly subpar vehicles that break a lot and that their customers lost confidence in their products. Oh yeah, they add some shine to the interior, call it all new and turning the page, but after 2 years people realize that it is same old GM.
Another problem is that they advertise vehicles that are going to be sold 2-3-4-5 years from now, instead of right now. Volt and Cruze are going to change the world in 2010, while in 2008, your sales are 40% down for the month sucka.
They need to fire everyone that works at top level at GM, Bob Lutz first and hire competent people who will do what needs to be done. And what they dont need is shiny korean daewoo engineering.
You want to talk about interior quality. I'm sorry, but I guess you're basing your facts on years old cars. Have you seen the new Silverado/Malibu interiors? And have you seen the interiors on the Tundra and Camry? I don't understand why simple facts elude so many people here beucase of biases they hold. Maybe you have to make yourselves feel better about the car makes you drive, but it gets tirring after awhile reading about how "terrible Acura is", how "terrible the interior" of a GM product is when there is absolutely nothing to base those claims on but personal bias. Fact change, and it's about time some people realize that around here.
11-07-08, 04:26 PM
#29
Moderator
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TM&annual
http://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/EN/in...N=DE0007664005
The U.S. is the largest economy, then I believe Japan is second and Germany is third...
Last edited by Trexus; 11-07-08 at 04:44 PM.
