Breaking News: GM posts $4.2Billion loss and warns that it is almost out of money
11-08-08, 06:21 AM
#46
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Yes but if I'm going to pay the bill anyway then let's at least teach the lesson that it really, really hurts when you mess up this bad. Perhaps, just perhaps, some longer term thinking will then begin to take hold. Pay now and the pain isn't felt too bad by anyone (ergo no lessons learned).
But the UAW is NOT the only factor of course. "Management" at the 'big 3' were also getting dumber, fatter, and richer. The 70s 'oil crisis' made them produce smaller more fuel efficient cars, but management showed so little concern and such contempt for its customers that they and their UAW workers produced, by and large, JUNK!
Enter the little Honda Civic, Toyotas, Subarus, and others, who began eating into the arrogance and incompetence of the big 3 and their UAW workers.
But these problems are NOT the fault of the CURRENT management of the big 3 who were WELL AWARE when they came in how the companies got there and have been working for well over a decade on fixing it. But their hands are tied to a big extent due to union obligations.
11-08-08, 06:25 AM
#47
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As much as I would like to see them go under, I highly doubt they will since Obama has come into office.
On another note, I do not think injecting money into their failed business models will help them recover. That is like injecting money into failing stocks or companies because you believe they can change. Any good business man knows when to cut their losses.
11-08-08, 06:50 AM
#48
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In comparison, Toyota works with suppliers to figure out cost effective solutions.
This goes back to "failing upwards". Rewarding awful behavior.
11-08-08, 07:30 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by bitkanuna
I have no sympathy for the UAW and its stranglehold and laziness, but wishing icons Ford and GM would go under to me shows you care little about this country.
Well other companies can use these suppliers. Hell the suppliers have been on razor thin margins for years as GM/Ford/Chrysler cut costs with suppliers first.
In comparison, Toyota works with suppliers to figure out cost effective solutions.
This goes back to "failing upwards". Rewarding awful behavior.
In comparison, Toyota works with suppliers to figure out cost effective solutions.
This goes back to "failing upwards". Rewarding awful behavior.
11-08-08, 03:15 PM
#50
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Now that GM has turned its back on ChryCo, or so they say, the latest rumor has Hyundai carving out some Chrysler assets. Mainly truck, probably Jeep. Interesting evolution of the whole thing. Chrysler is the weakest of the 3 and it may be gone before anyone makes a case to bail it out.
11-08-08, 04:09 PM
#51
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Then again, you have to love times of economic turmoil.
Hyundai Motor denies interest in Chrysler assets
SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) on Saturday denied its interest in Chrysler's assets, adding it had no capacity for a new acquisition as it focused on completing construction of overseas plants.
On Friday, Reuters reported Hyundai had had talks with Chrysler LLC owner Cerberus Capital Management about a potential acquisition of the struggling U.S. automaker's Jeep brand and possibly other assets, citing people with knowledge of the talks.
"We have no interest in whatsoever in acquiring Chrysler, including Jeep and have not engaged in any discussions with Cerberus on this matter," Hyundai Motor spokesman Jake Jang said.
"Our hands are full now."
The emergence of South Korea's largest automaker as a potential bidder for at least part of Chrysler came on the same day as General Motors Corp (GM.N) said it shelved its own pursuit of an acquisition of its cross-town rival.
Cerberus planned to restart talks with other potential partners for Chrysler, including Renault-Nissan, the sources said.
Jeep is considered Chrysler's most valuable asset.
Hyundai, the world's No. 5 carmaker along with affiliate Kia Motors Corp (000270.KS), has a 3 percent share of the U.S. market.
It has aspirations to be a full-line auto manufacturer. Based on low pricing and an attention-grabbing 10-year warranty, Hyundai saw sharp growth in U.S. sales earlier this decade.
Hyundai has plants in the United States, China, India, Turkey, Slovakia and the Czech Republic for production diversification and overseas sales boost.
In June, it started building its St Petersburg plant in Russia with investment of 330 million euros ($419.4 million) for a January, 2011 launch.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081108/...undai_denial_2
Hyundai Motor denies interest in Chrysler assets
SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) on Saturday denied its interest in Chrysler's assets, adding it had no capacity for a new acquisition as it focused on completing construction of overseas plants.
On Friday, Reuters reported Hyundai had had talks with Chrysler LLC owner Cerberus Capital Management about a potential acquisition of the struggling U.S. automaker's Jeep brand and possibly other assets, citing people with knowledge of the talks.
"We have no interest in whatsoever in acquiring Chrysler, including Jeep and have not engaged in any discussions with Cerberus on this matter," Hyundai Motor spokesman Jake Jang said.
"Our hands are full now."
The emergence of South Korea's largest automaker as a potential bidder for at least part of Chrysler came on the same day as General Motors Corp (GM.N) said it shelved its own pursuit of an acquisition of its cross-town rival.
Cerberus planned to restart talks with other potential partners for Chrysler, including Renault-Nissan, the sources said.
Jeep is considered Chrysler's most valuable asset.
Hyundai, the world's No. 5 carmaker along with affiliate Kia Motors Corp (000270.KS), has a 3 percent share of the U.S. market.
It has aspirations to be a full-line auto manufacturer. Based on low pricing and an attention-grabbing 10-year warranty, Hyundai saw sharp growth in U.S. sales earlier this decade.
Hyundai has plants in the United States, China, India, Turkey, Slovakia and the Czech Republic for production diversification and overseas sales boost.
In June, it started building its St Petersburg plant in Russia with investment of 330 million euros ($419.4 million) for a January, 2011 launch.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081108/...undai_denial_2
11-08-08, 05:51 PM
#52
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I didn't see anyone cheering when Nissan almost went bankrupt. They got bought out, a Japanese powerhouse, by a French company, REnault.
People celebrate Nissan like its the 2nd coming. I didn't see these people raining down on Nissan when they were totally in the red.
In comparison the amount of people enjoying seeing American companies fail is pathetic.
Lets not forget Mercedes dicked over Chrysler.
People celebrate Nissan like its the 2nd coming. I didn't see these people raining down on Nissan when they were totally in the red.
In comparison the amount of people enjoying seeing American companies fail is pathetic.
Lets not forget Mercedes dicked over Chrysler.
Did Nissan recieve any tax money (American or Japanese)? NO. It went into an alliance (favoring Renault).
People resent the fact that their taxes go into saving companies which were mismanaged to the brink of going out of business.
Mercedes dicked over Chrysler? they made a business move that they felt was the right one, its business not charity.
If GM or Ford want to survive, do as Nissan did, go into an unfavorable alliance with a rich company (Toyota?). Its business, so do business.
Until when will the public finance white collar screwups?
11-08-08, 09:03 PM
#53
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A good explanation of how it happened, from a Nov. 8 AP article. Full article here
Personally, I hate the phrase "too big to fail." That's why the goverment should stop excessive conglomeration/monopolization in various industries.
At Ford Motor Co. they called it "Blue," a team set up around the year 2000 to design an array of small, fuel-efficient cars to compete with the Japanese. It didn't get far because no one could figure out how to make money on low-priced compacts with Ford's high labor costs.
Besides, the automaker was racking up billions in profits by selling pickups and sport utility vehicles. Times were good and gas was cheap.
"Blue" is only a small blip in automotive history, but it tells a big part of the story about why Detroit automakers are in a mess so critical they could be only months away from bankruptcy.
* * *
When times were good, the automakers did not take on the UAW, which the companies say drove up their labor costs to $30 per hour more than Japanese companies paid their workers. The figure includes pension and health care costs for hundreds of thousands of retirees.
When GM pushed for changes in 1998, the union went on strike at two key Flint, Mich., parts plants, shutting down the company and costing it about $2 billion in profits.
"They were making money and the union had a monopoly," Cole said. "They'd shut them down. That's why they had some very lengthy strikes that were very painful."
But when the SUV and truck market started to fade in the mid-2000s, executives realized their business model would no longer work and began globalizing their vehicles, streamlining manufacturing processes and developing new and better cars.
The UAW, realizing that the companies were in trouble, agreed to a landmark new contract last year that nearly eliminated the labor cost difference between the Detroit Three and the Japanese, shifting retiree health care costs to a union-administered trust fund.
But just as the cost cuts started to take hold and new products were rolling out, gas prices rose rapidly to around $4 per gallon and Wall Street collapsed, virtually eliminating credit which 60 percent of car buyers need.
"A lot of things sort of coalesced simultaneously," said Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis for J.D. Power and Associates.
Besides, the automaker was racking up billions in profits by selling pickups and sport utility vehicles. Times were good and gas was cheap.
"Blue" is only a small blip in automotive history, but it tells a big part of the story about why Detroit automakers are in a mess so critical they could be only months away from bankruptcy.
* * *
When times were good, the automakers did not take on the UAW, which the companies say drove up their labor costs to $30 per hour more than Japanese companies paid their workers. The figure includes pension and health care costs for hundreds of thousands of retirees.
When GM pushed for changes in 1998, the union went on strike at two key Flint, Mich., parts plants, shutting down the company and costing it about $2 billion in profits.
"They were making money and the union had a monopoly," Cole said. "They'd shut them down. That's why they had some very lengthy strikes that were very painful."
But when the SUV and truck market started to fade in the mid-2000s, executives realized their business model would no longer work and began globalizing their vehicles, streamlining manufacturing processes and developing new and better cars.
The UAW, realizing that the companies were in trouble, agreed to a landmark new contract last year that nearly eliminated the labor cost difference between the Detroit Three and the Japanese, shifting retiree health care costs to a union-administered trust fund.
But just as the cost cuts started to take hold and new products were rolling out, gas prices rose rapidly to around $4 per gallon and Wall Street collapsed, virtually eliminating credit which 60 percent of car buyers need.
"A lot of things sort of coalesced simultaneously," said Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis for J.D. Power and Associates.
11-09-08, 09:20 AM
#54
I'm strongly opposed to any kind of bailout of the American auto industry without any change in management. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
11-09-08, 10:54 AM
#55
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I'm strongly opposed to any kind of bailout of the American auto industry without any change in management. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
11-09-08, 05:16 PM
#56
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I'm strongly opposed to any kind of bailout of the American auto industry without any change in management. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
11-09-08, 05:22 PM
#57
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As others have stated I find it hard to blame the current management (excluding Chrysler) for the predicament they find themselves in. They have done an amazing shrinking act and have worked quite hard to rid themselves of costs associated with some of the dumber prior business practices. However those changes don't really roll into full force for a couple years either. GM, Ford and Chrysler are in a race to survive a couple more years when many of the actions they have taken will finally help them out.
BTW: What happened with United where the pensions simply disappeared was unconscionable. One of the greatest acts of business BS enabled by the courts I have ever seen.
All that said I still think letting some of these companies fail and causing a lot of pain will be the only way we ever properly right this ship again as people just don't care if they don't feel enough pain.
Yes it was terrible, but United wasn't the only one who commited that act. US Air, DL/NWA. Continental has already been in Ch. 11 twice. These companies used ch. 11 protection to shore up their balance sheets, suffocate their contracts, wipe out their debt. American Airlines is at a huge competitive disadvantage today from not filling. They have pension obligations, they have the highest debt load in the industry, and they are going to be engulfed by UAL/CO and DL/NWA. I really see a domino senario as soon as one major auto files. Ford is really going to stick onto it's toxic debt while GM has it wiped clean?
11-09-08, 07:43 PM
#58
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I really wish all Americans could be happy and satisfied with buying only American BRANDED cars. But right now, there's still a bit of sacrifice for choosing to buy American over Honda or Toyota (in many but not all ways).
American automakers have made huge strides and I hope it continues to the point that you WANT American over Japanese or German cars. I really hope that when it's time to trade my Toyota in, there is something from one of the Big Three that fits my needs and requirements. This year, they didn't offer anything comparable to the Yaris. It is very disappointing that they don't make a small car ouside of the unsatisfactory Aveo (which America doesn't even make anyway!).
Imagine how strong America would be if we all bought American cars.
Of course, we should all have the continued choice to buy anything else the world makes but my point is that I wish that we all DESIRED American cars because of being better. I really hope the Big Three pulls out, survives, and get's to that point.
American automakers have made huge strides and I hope it continues to the point that you WANT American over Japanese or German cars. I really hope that when it's time to trade my Toyota in, there is something from one of the Big Three that fits my needs and requirements. This year, they didn't offer anything comparable to the Yaris. It is very disappointing that they don't make a small car ouside of the unsatisfactory Aveo (which America doesn't even make anyway!).
Imagine how strong America would be if we all bought American cars.
Of course, we should all have the continued choice to buy anything else the world makes but my point is that I wish that we all DESIRED American cars because of being better. I really hope the Big Three pulls out, survives, and get's to that point.
11-09-08, 09:22 PM
#59
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I'm strongly opposed to any kind of bailout of the American auto industry without any change in management. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
Having said that, I have to note that patriotism is a dirty word in this country nowadays. People only care about themselves or their respective affinity/ethnic groups. Nobody cares about America. The Japanese and Korean economies are highly protectionist and have been for decades.......and that doesn't even take into account huge nationalistic feeling among the general populace in countries like Korea. No matter how superior the product, buy a foreign car and your neighbor/friends etc. will ask you why you didn't buy a Korean car instead.
The domestic industry has had to go through enormous hurdles........yet, they're still responsible for many of the technologies that you enjoy your car today. In fact, most relevant technologies come from either America or Europe. But some of you can't see that. Look at Ford Europe or what GM engineers are able to do given a little freedom (ZR-1 for instance). The engineers are the best and most creative. (sadly management is terrible)
Add to all this, the crippling effects of poor management and the UAW. Sad thing is, just when they were able to right the ship, things started going sour (along with the rest of America).
If you think the American auto industry going down isn't going to affect you, thing twice. This is one of the few remaining large industries left in America. Everything else is MADE IN CHINA. I've actively started looking for MIA products because it DOES make a difference.
MILLIONS of jobs will go down the drain if even GM alone goes down. You think Toyota is supporting American jobs...........GM alone has 54 plants in America. Even your job may be affected because there will be very few people with any relevant income to buy the products that your company makes. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm very worried about my job. But I'm even more worried about the country as a whole and where it's headed.
If GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, the effects would be catastrophic. In the event of WWIII, who do you think is left to build anything for you? Boeing? Hopefully, we'll see some strong leadership in these troubling times. In the meanwhile, do your part where you can to support your country. That doesn't mean buy a Cobalt.......but it could mean buying a Cruze or a CTS.
The other part is so many people got crapped on by GM/Ford/Chrysler with selling crappy cars that people have moved on to other companies and have not looked back.
Growing up my family had a Taurus LX, SHO, Pontiac Grand Am for example and all were CRAP. Total CRAP, especially as they got older. The funny thing is the cheapest car, the ole NIssan Sentra started every time and gave not a hint of trouble. Even though we didn't buy another Nissan, we went with Japanese cars and quite frankly have not looked back.
Now with all the Asian brands with a diverse portfolio, if you want a full size truck to a big van, you can choose them too.
Has anyone driven or been in a NEW Chrysler Sebring/Avenger? I am amazed they actully think this is a new car. Its horrible, HORRIBLE. The Fusion/Malibu/Korean/Asian cars and the Jetta make it look like a 20 year old car.
11-09-08, 09:49 PM
#60
Nice to see this thread has taken a pro American turn, by all means you should buy whatever suits your needs and the big three should be held accountable for the mistakes they have made but wishing for them to fail or thinking they would be better under bankruptcy is foolish, shallow and short sighted.