I just don't get Audi...
11-14-08, 06:23 AM
#31
Went to the Audi performance driving event last Friday and I had an opportunity to drive the A4 3.2 Quattro on the infield track at California Speedway in Fontana as well as its competitors (328xi, IS250 AWD and C300 4Matic). Overall I have to say that I am not impressed by the new A4 at all.
The interior material quality is no longer class leading, both the Lexus and Bimmer have better quality materials. Fit and finish is still top notch but which one isn't in this segment? Okay, maybe not so much for the Infiniti...
I wasn't too impressed by its performance as well, the 3.2L V6 is a disgrace especially in the entry lux segment, Audi needs to get with the program by offering a more competitive V6. The steering is light, lighter than the IS250 (yes, you heard me right), although still confident through corners and turns but 328xi blows the A4 out of the water in that area. Chassis doesn't appear to be as rigid as the Bimmer and Merc (like a tank but not in a good way) but slightly better than the Lexus. If I have to rank the 4 cars just based on performance it would be:
328xi > A4 3.2 Quattro > IS250 AWD >>> C300 4Matic
Overall while taking everything into consideration the ranking would be:
328xi > IS250 AWD > A4 3.2 Quattro >> C300 4Matic
The loaded A4 3.2 Quattro that I drove carries a sticker of $48k and a loaded 2.0T Quattro commends $44k. I find myself asking a question: Why should I get the A4 at that kind of price with less performance while I can get something else cheaper like the G35, 335i and IS350? Sure you would say AWD but let's not forget that the G35 and 335i also have AWD variants. One of the Audi rep told me that the A4 is meant to compete with the 328i and they have the S4 to compete with the 335i. OK, Mr. Smart Guy, then can you please tell me why should I buy a S4 at over $50k while with couple grands more I can get myself a M3 sedan?
Also, if the A4 3.2 is meant to compete with the 328i then what should the 2.0T compete with? The Honda Accord?
I just don't get Audi.
The interior material quality is no longer class leading, both the Lexus and Bimmer have better quality materials. Fit and finish is still top notch but which one isn't in this segment? Okay, maybe not so much for the Infiniti...
I wasn't too impressed by its performance as well, the 3.2L V6 is a disgrace especially in the entry lux segment, Audi needs to get with the program by offering a more competitive V6. The steering is light, lighter than the IS250 (yes, you heard me right), although still confident through corners and turns but 328xi blows the A4 out of the water in that area. Chassis doesn't appear to be as rigid as the Bimmer and Merc (like a tank but not in a good way) but slightly better than the Lexus. If I have to rank the 4 cars just based on performance it would be:
328xi > A4 3.2 Quattro > IS250 AWD >>> C300 4Matic
Overall while taking everything into consideration the ranking would be:
328xi > IS250 AWD > A4 3.2 Quattro >> C300 4Matic
The loaded A4 3.2 Quattro that I drove carries a sticker of $48k and a loaded 2.0T Quattro commends $44k. I find myself asking a question: Why should I get the A4 at that kind of price with less performance while I can get something else cheaper like the G35, 335i and IS350? Sure you would say AWD but let's not forget that the G35 and 335i also have AWD variants. One of the Audi rep told me that the A4 is meant to compete with the 328i and they have the S4 to compete with the 335i. OK, Mr. Smart Guy, then can you please tell me why should I buy a S4 at over $50k while with couple grands more I can get myself a M3 sedan?
Also, if the A4 3.2 is meant to compete with the 328i then what should the 2.0T compete with? The Honda Accord?
I just don't get Audi.
11-14-08, 08:35 AM
#32
Nah... too ricey and boy-racerish for my taste. I don't think you are getting the point, I am willing to pay the entry level lux kind of money (~$40k) and 335i/IS350/G37 is plenty fast for me. However, Audi is making the A4 a very unattractive product in today's entry lux segment by having the second-highest base MSRP and last in engine performance.
11-14-08, 12:08 PM
#33
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Good to see guys take advantage of the driving events and experience vehicles first hand.. I had a blast driving the Audi RS4 at the Streets of Tomorrow Event a while back. Audi's from my experience tend to exhibit too much body roll for my tastes.. I love the styling of their vehicles especially the A8 & RS8..
But I have to say my tastes are changing. Probably only partly due to ageing even more. The roads around here suck. I don't know any more polite way to put it. I have lived in the South Bay for over thirty years now and the roads are in the worst shape I have ever seen. And I don't get the feeling that is going to change anytime soon with the economy. I suspect that is also starting to get me to look more at softer ride than sporty ride. What a shame.
Having said that, the Audis with the standard tires have a pretty good balance of handling with non punishing ride. I still like BMW too, they set the standard IMO. But stiffer suspensions and lower profile tires are getting to be a thing of the past for me as long as the roads are in the shape they are in.
11-14-08, 01:33 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
As the previous post said, "Ablaze" was meant as sales numbers which as you can see below is exactly what Audi is doing to everyone else in the market. If you want to go fast and lose your fillings every time you close your door or drive over a pothole buy an Evo or G37. If you want a more sophisticated well equipped, reliable car than the Audi A4 is a major player regardless of what you think. The numbers don't lie!
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...4920739&EDATE=
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...4920739&EDATE=
Last edited by 8speed; 11-14-08 at 01:50 PM.
11-14-08, 01:50 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Audis can be a bit schizophrenic with more body roll than you would expect but yet not a particularly supple ride. It seems to depend a lot on tires. I am not sure I have been very happy with many Audis I have test driven that had optional tires. That probably won't go down well with the study hall set.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...A+2009+audi+a4
But I have to disagree with the part about the tires affecting body roll. Tires are usually more of a factor in determining immediate steering response and ultimate braking/skidpad grip, not body roll. Body roll is primarily determined by suspension/shock stiffness, anti-roll bar thickness, and center of gravity/ride height.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-14-08 at 01:54 PM.
11-14-08, 02:53 PM
#36
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I'll partially agree. I just recently reviewed a 2009 A4 2.0T Tiptronic Quattro, and I was not as impressed with the ride-handling combination as with the comparable BMW 3-series...or even the Mercedes C-Class.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...A+2009+audi+a4
But I have to disagree with the part about the tires affecting body roll. Tires are usually more of a factor in determining immediate steering response and ultimate braking/skidpad grip, not body roll. Body roll is primarily determined by suspension/shock stiffness, anti-roll bar thickness, and center of gravity/ride height.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...A+2009+audi+a4
But I have to disagree with the part about the tires affecting body roll. Tires are usually more of a factor in determining immediate steering response and ultimate braking/skidpad grip, not body roll. Body roll is primarily determined by suspension/shock stiffness, anti-roll bar thickness, and center of gravity/ride height.
Audi is somewhat different in that they seem to be more towards the stiffer shock rates now. Can't say that I notice the springs being particularly stiff, or at least any more than the competition, and the speed and duration of transient responses lead me to the conclusion its the shocks more than the springs but little interest in finding out. The tendency to do suspension development on that miserable excuse for the real world known as the Nurburgring has most all performance oriented cars far stiffer today than they used to be.
Of course, the optional tires on the Audi are lower profile and while I didn't look, probably higher speed rating which means softer tread compound and stiffer sidewall. Great for the study hall set. Lousy for old farts on miserable, pot hole strewn roads.
11-14-08, 04:00 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
didn't audi revise the 2.0T numbers to 211hp/256tq? should be just as quick as the 328 and faster than the IS250 and C300 right?
they need a new 300+hp 3.5 motor to compete with is IS350/335i/G35
I'm sure it will come sooner rather than later.
(they already have a 3.6liter but it only makes 280hp)
they need a new 300+hp 3.5 motor to compete with is IS350/335i/G35
I'm sure it will come sooner rather than later.
(they already have a 3.6liter but it only makes 280hp)
11-14-08, 04:37 PM
#38
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didn't audi revise the 2.0T numbers to 211hp/256tq? should be just as quick as the 328 and faster than the IS250 and C300 right?
they need a new 300+hp 3.5 motor to compete with is IS350/335i/G35
I'm sure it will come sooner rather than later.
(they already have a 3.6liter but it only makes 280hp)
they need a new 300+hp 3.5 motor to compete with is IS350/335i/G35
I'm sure it will come sooner rather than later.
(they already have a 3.6liter but it only makes 280hp)
11-14-08, 06:11 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Stand corrected, I forgot about that. I think they are using an eaton-group supercharger or something along those lines. Either way, tuning will be so much easier. Audi is the hottest and most innovative car company going, with the R8 winning every Car of the year award and the new A5/S5 receiving rave reviews not to mention the latest news about the forced induction B8 S line coming out for 2009/10, they are listening to consumers...which is refreshing. Meanwhile, companies like GM are producing supercars like the ZR1, and CTS-V but won't be around to give car owners an oil change in five years after they go bankrupt!
11-16-08, 05:03 AM
#42
Pole Position
dammit they should have gone twin turbo like the RS6. Eitherway a quick retune of ecu followed by exhaust intake and coils could make the S4 an insanely fun and fast car to drive.
Anyway it seems CL is very divided between fit finish and interior quality of audis as well as what is an overall better car; Audi or BMW
Here is my take on the price difference. In the US its marketed as a luxury car (and they view themselves more luxurious than BMW and should be priced accordingly)
I kinda agree, Audis are the new snob machine,
Anyway it seems CL is very divided between fit finish and interior quality of audis as well as what is an overall better car; Audi or BMW
Here is my take on the price difference. In the US its marketed as a luxury car (and they view themselves more luxurious than BMW and should be priced accordingly)
I kinda agree, Audis are the new snob machine,
11-16-08, 09:20 AM
#43
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most of the audi guys on forums agree with you they are pissed at the a4 v6 performance and pissed at the s4 price tag. well you know what i think, audi is making a huge mistake with pricing the s4 so high and the having the v6 a4 so underpowred that the lack of sales just might teach them a lesson. unless the s4 will be priced in the mid to low 40's
11-16-08, 10:09 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
most of the audi guys on forums agree with you they are pissed at the a4 v6 performance and pissed at the s4 price tag. well you know what i think, audi is making a huge mistake with pricing the s4 so high and the having the v6 a4 so underpowred that the lack of sales just might teach them a lesson. unless the s4 will be priced in the mid to low 40's
Audi is setting sales records as we speak!http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...4920739&EDATE=
Not bad for a global recession
11-16-08, 11:02 AM
#45
That'll be very very very unlikely. Mid to low 40's to me means from $40k to $46k so let's take a look at the A4 3.2 base MSRP:
Premium Plus quattro: $40k
Prestige quattro: $43k
By pricing the S4 even at mid 40's will totally eliminate the purpose of A4 3.2 imo.
Given that the base MSRP for the S5 is $50k I would guesstimate the S4 will start at around $49k. However, good luck on finding one at that price, most you see in the dealers will be around $54k with the tech + navi package (base on the S5 pricing). At $54k, I'll just get a M3 sedan...
Premium Plus quattro: $40k
Prestige quattro: $43k
By pricing the S4 even at mid 40's will totally eliminate the purpose of A4 3.2 imo.
Given that the base MSRP for the S5 is $50k I would guesstimate the S4 will start at around $49k. However, good luck on finding one at that price, most you see in the dealers will be around $54k with the tech + navi package (base on the S5 pricing). At $54k, I'll just get a M3 sedan...