I just don't get Audi...
#61
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#62
Racer
Honestly imo they should make whatever sell. fyi: BMW and MB don't bring all their cars to America.
After thinking about Toyota/Scion make these duplicate copies of cars that sell. So I say make whatever the people will buy.
After thinking about Toyota/Scion make these duplicate copies of cars that sell. So I say make whatever the people will buy.
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you very much.
I rest my case...
The best info we have so far on the S4 is 333 hp so I am sticking with that. I'll say it again, at around $54k and if AWD is not needed I just don't see a point of getting that over the M3 sedan.
RS4 vs M3: good match up if price is not a factor
S4 vs M3: eh...
S4 vs 335xi: good match up if price is not a factor
A4 3.2 vs. 335xi: good match up (pricing wise...) if performance is not a factor
A4 3.2 vs. 328xi: good match up if price is not a factor
A4 2.0T vs. 328xi: good match up
Audi should just elminate the A4 3.2 and start the SC 3.0 S4 at around low to mid 40's.
I rest my case...
The best info we have so far on the S4 is 333 hp so I am sticking with that. I'll say it again, at around $54k and if AWD is not needed I just don't see a point of getting that over the M3 sedan.
RS4 vs M3: good match up if price is not a factor
S4 vs M3: eh...
S4 vs 335xi: good match up if price is not a factor
A4 3.2 vs. 335xi: good match up (pricing wise...) if performance is not a factor
A4 3.2 vs. 328xi: good match up if price is not a factor
A4 2.0T vs. 328xi: good match up
Audi should just elminate the A4 3.2 and start the SC 3.0 S4 at around low to mid 40's.
Gotta say, I'd love them to somehow fit the corporate 3.6L VR6 powerplant in the car. The Passat CC can pull off sub-6 seconds sprints to 60 with that engine - And it's an absolute screamer. And the 2.0T is an excellent motor, even moreso in it's latest form in the 2009 A4.
With all that said, VW/Audi is not run by a bunch of morons; they obviously did their homework when introducing the 3.2 V6 unit at its said price tag and felt that it was an acceptable motor for the application. Most people that go test drive these cars will still admire the car, it's smooth, quick, quiet, luxurious. Like I said before, not everybody is going out and basing their car buying decisions on a .4 second spread to 60MPH under wide open throttle (even though many of you talk like that is all that matters in a car). Many will take into account the generous rear-seat space, the way the car is styled, etc. Audi obviously is doing something right if you look at their sales numbers here and globally.
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could you clarify this statement further? Yes Toyota has been and is doing many things correctly. There is a reason they are number one, just as there is a reason Diamler and BMW are worried sick over Audi.
#67
IMO BMW has nothing to worry about, the 3er is better than the A4 hands down in performance and fit-and-finish, the only advantages the A4 has is interior volume and possible styling. However, beauty is in the eyes of beholders. MB on the other end is a different story...
#68
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was just a bit disappointed at the direction Audi took that's all. However that's totally understandable since I also understand how Toyota's philosophy differ than other automakers.
IMO BMW has nothing to worry about, the 3er is better than the A4 hands down in performance and fit-and-finish, the only advantages the A4 has is interior volume and possible styling. However, beauty is in the eyes of beholders. MB on the other end is a different story...
IMO BMW has nothing to worry about, the 3er is better than the A4 hands down in performance and fit-and-finish, the only advantages the A4 has is interior volume and possible styling. However, beauty is in the eyes of beholders. MB on the other end is a different story...
#69
Even though that I still don't get Audi's strategy in the entry lux market but I think that in the foreseeable future it'll be Toyota and VAG fighting for the top spot of the global auto market. GM will be a solid number three, however, everyone should keep an eye on the wild card: Hyundai.
Personally I really like the new A4's styling but that car just simply has too many flaws that'll keep it from becoming a major player in the entry lux market in the NA. Like I said, 3er has nothing to worry about. Actually, take away Audi's sales in China then the picture all of the sudden doesn't look all that rosy anymore. Audi and VW have a head start in China thus they dominated that market in the late 90s and early 00s when China's economy took off. However, China is no longer VAG's private playing ground with other luxury makers like BMW, MB and even Lexus and Acura eating away Audi's market share. Although only little by little but eventually Audi will have to share the market with them just like they do here in NA.
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 11-17-08 at 08:05 PM.
#70
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I really like the new A4's styling but that car just simply has too many flaws that'll keep it from becoming a major player in the entry lux market in the NA. Like I said, 3er has nothing to worry about. Actually, take away Audi's sales in China then the picture all of the sudden doesn't look all that rosy anymore. Audi and VW have a head start in China thus they dominated that market in the late 90s and early 00s when China's economy took off. However, China is no longer VAG's private playing ground with other luxury makers like BMW, MB and even Lexus and Acura eating away Audi's market share. Although only little by little but eventually Audi will have to share the market with them just like they do here in NA.
Audi is a very small player in N. America still, but it's Acura/Lexus/BMW/MB who are going to have to start making room, even moreso when Audi Execs want their own plant here.
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Totally agree on that statement and that's also the same advantage Lexus has over BMW/MB.
Even though that I still don't get Audi's strategy in the entry lux market but I think that in the foreseeable future it'll be Toyota and VAG fighting for the top spot of the global auto market. GM will be a solid number three, however, everyone should keep an eye on the wild card: Hyundai.
Personally I really like the new A4's styling but that car just simply has too many flaws that'll keep it from becoming a major player in the entry lux market in the NA. Like I said, 3er has nothing to worry about. Actually, take away Audi's sales in China then the picture all of the sudden doesn't look all that rosy anymore. Audi and VW have a head start in China thus they dominated that market in the late 90s and early 00s when China's economy took off. However, China is no longer VAG's private playing ground with other luxury makers like BMW, MB and even Lexus and Acura eating away Audi's market share. Although only little by little but eventually Audi will have to share the market with them just like they do here in NA.
Even though that I still don't get Audi's strategy in the entry lux market but I think that in the foreseeable future it'll be Toyota and VAG fighting for the top spot of the global auto market. GM will be a solid number three, however, everyone should keep an eye on the wild card: Hyundai.
Personally I really like the new A4's styling but that car just simply has too many flaws that'll keep it from becoming a major player in the entry lux market in the NA. Like I said, 3er has nothing to worry about. Actually, take away Audi's sales in China then the picture all of the sudden doesn't look all that rosy anymore. Audi and VW have a head start in China thus they dominated that market in the late 90s and early 00s when China's economy took off. However, China is no longer VAG's private playing ground with other luxury makers like BMW, MB and even Lexus and Acura eating away Audi's market share. Although only little by little but eventually Audi will have to share the market with them just like they do here in NA.
#72
Replace N. America with China.
Replace Acura/Lexus/BMW/MB with Audi/BMW/MB.
As long as others are gaining then that means Audi's market share is shrinking over there in China.
As for the A4 I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think some of the issue with Audi here is what the hell is an Audi? B/C BMW has the "sporty" image on lock, Benz has the "luxury" image and you have this other German car maker that makes good looking cars, great interiors but really only had the "AWD" tag.
Today, well everyone from Caddy to Acura to lexus to Saab offers AWD.
I like Audi's new ads, "not the status quo" and showing how good looking the cars are. I have said for YEARS there is no more room for another Tier 1 brand. You get 3 and in America its BMW/Benz/Lexus.
Audi blew its chance in the 1990s when Lexus came full steam ahead.
Today, well everyone from Caddy to Acura to lexus to Saab offers AWD.
I like Audi's new ads, "not the status quo" and showing how good looking the cars are. I have said for YEARS there is no more room for another Tier 1 brand. You get 3 and in America its BMW/Benz/Lexus.
Audi blew its chance in the 1990s when Lexus came full steam ahead.
#75
I think some of the issue with Audi here is what the hell is an Audi? B/C BMW has the "sporty" image on lock, Benz has the "luxury" image and you have this other German car maker that makes good looking cars, great interiors but really only had the "AWD" tag.
Today, well everyone from Caddy to Acura to lexus to Saab offers AWD.
I like Audi's new ads, "not the status quo" and showing how good looking the cars are. I have said for YEARS there is no more room for another Tier 1 brand. You get 3 and in America its BMW/Benz/Lexus.
Audi blew its chance in the 1990s when Lexus came full steam ahead.
Today, well everyone from Caddy to Acura to lexus to Saab offers AWD.
I like Audi's new ads, "not the status quo" and showing how good looking the cars are. I have said for YEARS there is no more room for another Tier 1 brand. You get 3 and in America its BMW/Benz/Lexus.
Audi blew its chance in the 1990s when Lexus came full steam ahead.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lk9865
IS - 2nd Gen (2006-2013)
4
08-27-07 08:20 AM