#1 Infiniti G37 Journey vs. #2 Acura TL SH-AWD
11-17-08, 09:37 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The RL and TL are duds visually. The TSX is ok kinda in a BMW 1 series kinda way.
11-17-08, 09:58 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will agree that Honda is very stubborn and arrogant with the decisions they make and the mindset they've had over the past few years.
Honda is no longer a leader even in engines. Their engines continue to lack torque, and Honda's I-VTEC system is outdated in comparison to Nissan's VVEL and Toyota's Valvematic. Yes Honda is working on a similar system with A-VTEC, but that won't be out until 2009 at the earliest.
Honda, once respected and admired for the focus on engineering excellence and innovation in engineering, has now become a "me too" company, imitating and chasing other competitors in the market.
Honda is no longer a leader even in engines. Their engines continue to lack torque, and Honda's I-VTEC system is outdated in comparison to Nissan's VVEL and Toyota's Valvematic. Yes Honda is working on a similar system with A-VTEC, but that won't be out until 2009 at the earliest.
Honda, once respected and admired for the focus on engineering excellence and innovation in engineering, has now become a "me too" company, imitating and chasing other competitors in the market.
11-17-08, 11:41 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not quite. Honda's "I-SHIFT" 6-speed automated manual is not a true DSG. It does NOT have double clutches.
Honda's I-Shift is nothing more than a 6MT with a motor electronically controlling the shifts. It has limited availability (ONLY available on the Euro Civic and Euro Jazz/Fit) and it has had some reliability issues.
The design of it is based directly off of Honda's 6 speed manual.
Once again Honda's reputation makes people think some new feature they release is more special than it actually is in reality.
In other words, the I-Shift is pretty much an SMG/SMT transmission. So once again, Honda is several years late to the party.
While the competition is focusing on sophisticated automatics, and DSG trannies Honda comes to market with an SMT, and one with very limited availability as well.
For mass-market everyday cars, SMT/SMG transmissions are outdated and impractical. DSG transmissions are much better not just for mass market cars, but in general.
Toyota years ago had an SMT on the MR-2, but it had a few issues and it wasn't that great, one reason why you don't see it used on other Toyota models.
Let me know when Honda has an ACTUAL DSG on the market, or an automatic with more than 5 gears.
Honda's I-Shift is nothing more than a 6MT with a motor electronically controlling the shifts. It has limited availability (ONLY available on the Euro Civic and Euro Jazz/Fit) and it has had some reliability issues.
The design of it is based directly off of Honda's 6 speed manual.
Once again Honda's reputation makes people think some new feature they release is more special than it actually is in reality.
In other words, the I-Shift is pretty much an SMG/SMT transmission. So once again, Honda is several years late to the party.
While the competition is focusing on sophisticated automatics, and DSG trannies Honda comes to market with an SMT, and one with very limited availability as well.
For mass-market everyday cars, SMT/SMG transmissions are outdated and impractical. DSG transmissions are much better not just for mass market cars, but in general.
Toyota years ago had an SMT on the MR-2, but it had a few issues and it wasn't that great, one reason why you don't see it used on other Toyota models.
Let me know when Honda has an ACTUAL DSG on the market, or an automatic with more than 5 gears.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 11-17-08 at 11:45 PM.
11-18-08, 06:32 AM
#36
Racer
Honestly, I agree Honda is behind but who cares if a Honda accord has DSG or a 7-speed transmission. All that extra stuff is not needed in a VW/Toyota/Honda/Ford. The average person cares more about gas mileage and cup holders in that market. Plus imo feel the hold gear thing is over blown. Sometimes when I’m driving my CLS I down shift to get some extra power and I think to myself man what is the point of 7 gears.
7 is overkill and 8 is a waste. But I guess the more gears you have the more special you feel.
7 is overkill and 8 is a waste. But I guess the more gears you have the more special you feel.
11-18-08, 10:42 AM
#37
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 1,751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G37 FTW...
TL performance # is embarrasing.... TL looks is even worse.... The most beautiful TL tp date is the 08 TL-S... It's like Acura is moving many step BACKWARD...performance + looks.
I am looking for a replacement for my C230 and Acura is not even on the radar...very sad indeed.
TL performance # is embarrasing.... TL looks is even worse.... The most beautiful TL tp date is the 08 TL-S... It's like Acura is moving many step BACKWARD...performance + looks.
I am looking for a replacement for my C230 and Acura is not even on the radar...very sad indeed.
11-18-08, 11:10 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
guys... Infiniti is the japanese BMW. No argument can be made. Acura is the Audi, and Lexus is the Mercedes. The G35 is the japanese performance sedan benchmark. straight up. I hope they are more reliable than my 03 G35 sedan ( first gen ) bought in june of 2002
11-18-08, 11:59 AM
#40
While I agree with your entire post and think you made great points, in all fairness, Audi's torque vectoring Quattro was their counter to SHAWD. At a point, Acura has the best AWD setup in the luxury arena which was quite a slap in the face to Audi who is seen as the luxury AWD company.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
11-18-08, 01:06 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I agree with your entire post and think you made great points, in all fairness, Audi's torque vectoring Quattro was their counter to SHAWD. At a point, Acura has the best AWD setup in the luxury arena which was quite a slap in the face to Audi who is seen as the luxury AWD company.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Honda never really has the most sophisticated technology in their cars. It's new 6-speed transmission is simpler in design to the DSG, their VTEC system is more mundane in design to Audi's Valve Lift, BMWs, Toyota's systems. Even the keys they use for their car - They came out with a switchblade for one Acura model two years ago, nearly ten years after the first MB and VW products launched with it. Even the way they have their gas flap and trunk set to open is by a cheap physical connector.
Now some of this may be what keeps them reliable, they never overengineer, they always design simply, but for me, it just makes them seem cheap and udner-engineered compared to a comparable German car.
11-18-08, 01:20 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
... LOL.. x2 I've already beat that ridiculous claim to the ground, swept it up, smoked it and sold the rest. Quit posting it.
11-18-08, 01:24 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
While I agree with your entire post and think you made great points, in all fairness, Audi's torque vectoring Quattro was their counter to SHAWD. At a point, Acura has the best AWD setup in the luxury arena which was quite a slap in the face to Audi who is seen as the luxury AWD company.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
Audi is the one playing catch up, ironically.
Under NORMAL driving conditions, with 99% of these owners, they will feel 70% FWD/30% RWD. I have yet to see an RL even speed, let alone attack a corner where SH-AWD would actually be advantagous.
Audi simply does not have the AWD advantage as before as EVERYONE offers AWD.
Acura
Caddy
Infiniti
Lexus
Saab
BMW
Benz
Lincoln
Audi can no longer rely on AWD as a selling point. And NOTHING beats RWD for purity.
11-18-08, 02:11 PM
#44
Yes but they've had this technology laying stalemate for years. It was used in their rally cars.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Honda never really has the most sophisticated technology in their cars. It's new 6-speed transmission is simpler in design to the DSG, their VTEC system is more mundane in design to Audi's Valve Lift, BMWs, Toyota's systems. Even the keys they use for their car - They came out with a switchblade for one Acura model two years ago, nearly ten years after the first MB and VW products launched with it. Even the way they have their gas flap and trunk set to open is by a cheap physical connector.
Now some of this may be what keeps them reliable, they never overengineer, they always design simply, but for me, it just makes them seem cheap and udner-engineered compared to a comparable German car.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Honda never really has the most sophisticated technology in their cars. It's new 6-speed transmission is simpler in design to the DSG, their VTEC system is more mundane in design to Audi's Valve Lift, BMWs, Toyota's systems. Even the keys they use for their car - They came out with a switchblade for one Acura model two years ago, nearly ten years after the first MB and VW products launched with it. Even the way they have their gas flap and trunk set to open is by a cheap physical connector.
Now some of this may be what keeps them reliable, they never overengineer, they always design simply, but for me, it just makes them seem cheap and udner-engineered compared to a comparable German car.
I need to revive my "What happened to Honda?" thread.
11-18-08, 09:52 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes but they've had this technology laying stalemate for years. It was used in their rally cars.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Honda never really has the most sophisticated technology in their cars. It's new 6-speed transmission is simpler in design to the DSG, their VTEC system is more mundane in design to Audi's Valve Lift, BMWs, Toyota's systems. Even the keys they use for their car - They came out with a switchblade for one Acura model two years ago, nearly ten years after the first MB and VW products launched with it. Even the way they have their gas flap and trunk set to open is by a cheap physical connector.
Now some of this may be what keeps them reliable, they never overengineer, they always design simply, but for me, it just makes them seem cheap and udner-engineered compared to a comparable German car.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that Honda never really has the most sophisticated technology in their cars. It's new 6-speed transmission is simpler in design to the DSG, their VTEC system is more mundane in design to Audi's Valve Lift, BMWs, Toyota's systems. Even the keys they use for their car - They came out with a switchblade for one Acura model two years ago, nearly ten years after the first MB and VW products launched with it. Even the way they have their gas flap and trunk set to open is by a cheap physical connector.
Now some of this may be what keeps them reliable, they never overengineer, they always design simply, but for me, it just makes them seem cheap and udner-engineered compared to a comparable German car.
This is a very good point you've touched upon. The main reason why Hondas are reliable is because of their simplicity. Honda for the most part really does not over-engineer. German automakers have far more complex designs, and yet mechanically they are still reliable. Even Nissan and Toyota generally use more complex engineering than Honda, and Nissan's reliability has been improving while Toyota remains up there.
Perfect example is Honda's A/C systems and their braking systems. On most Hondas, both the braking and A/C systems are lacking, and you could say they are under-engineered as opposed to over-engineered. Too many Honda models suffer from significant brake fade issues, and from weak heating/cooling systems.
The problem arises when you push a Honda past the point that it was engineered for, or if you push a specific part of a Honda past the point it was engineered for problems occur.
Arguably, only Honda's engines are over-engineered to a degree, and even then Honda's direct competition Toyota and Nissan over-engineer their engines to a greater degree.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
speedflex
Car Chat
29
07-27-09 05:47 PM
