mmarshall

Well, from what I understand, the BlueTec diesels and the TDI both meet CA emissions, the country's toughest standard. They were supposed to, anyway....that is one of the main reasons why they were developed, and why EPA mandated the necessary low-sulfur diesel fuel.

http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2007/10daimler.php

http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/20...iesel-arrives/

mmarshall

Next planned review will be the special Holiday review I do for CL, every December, on a unique, classy, upmarket car. I won't spill the beans on this one in advance, except to say that it will depend on whether I can get an actual test-drive. The car I'm planning on, though not an exotic, is notoriously hard to get test-drives on.

audi2nr

iTrader: (1)

that was a good review, nice catch on the urea injection, i was kinda wondering the same thing as i have driven and worked on a few jetta tdi's and have not come across the urea injection.... yet.... there are a ton of diesels running around the northwest, must be a hippie/environmentalist sort of thing. i work at an audi/vw store and practically every vw diesel i see in the shop is running biodiesel or has some sort of bumper sticker touting diesel over hybrid tech. speaking of diesels i can't wait to go to 3.0 tdi class next spring right before they release the new engine to the states

FKL

Yes the TDI motor in the new Jetta does not use urea-injection. Instead it uses very complex (and costly) emissions system traps, much like the new Honda diesel coming to Europe.

I'd like to ask you about the MFA display in the dash. Is it a full FIS (full size) or is it only half of the box (on the TDI)? I know the GTI/GLI have this feature and it is very nice to have your audio stations displayed there. As an added bonus, with the optional Nav it will display routing directions, like Mercedes-Benz does.

And don't think you escaped that quick out of the vw dealer! That sexy-*** CC is still there But nice, nice review, I really enjoyed it, honestly.

TripleL

Very good review Mmarshall, Thank you!!

Jetta TDI has always been a solid car IMO. I do see a lot of Jetta's around here, but few TDIs. Until I got down to the part of your review about the brake pedal placement I was going to ask you if the car did have 4Motion (AWD) would you consider it as your daily driver. I'll still ask but understand brake pedal probably broke the deal

TripleL

mmarshall

Thanks. The limited amount of literature I got with the car when I reviewed it (full brochures/specs weren't available at that VW shop), and VW's own web site are not the best for clarity. The engine/transmission specs I posted for each Jetta model were from VW's website, which I included for reference.


I understand that many states outlaw the use of some bio-diesel fuels, especially home-made ones, because it comes from sources that are not taxed as motor fuel, as state laws require. Car and Driver ran a story in one of their issues about a guy in IL that tried to produce bio-diesel fuel on a fairly large scale, and got into a lot of legal trouble with the state. Similiar events have taken place in other states.

mmarshall

Thanks. This is the first I've heard about any new-generation, Blue-Tec diesel NOT using the urea injection. I learned something myself today as well.

My test car was a non-NAV version, and did not have a center-dash screen at all. The stereo controls were marvelously simple.....I commented on that in the review. It did have a small digital display behind the steering wheel, between the two primary gauges (speedometer and tach) that showed some odometer, trip-mileage, and fuel-use functions.

As far as audio systems go, it had the standard stereo/CD system with an optional $199 I-Pod hookup.




Thanks. I looked at a CC briefly while I was there, but didn't take any notes on it, test-drive it, or do a write-up. I had a specific request for the TDI diesel Jetta, and, of course, that's what I concentrated on.

Just for the record, I didn't care for the CC's low, humpback-whale roofline. I thought the standard Passat sedan looked far better, but then I tend to be somewhat conservative in my auto and styling preferences.

mmarshall

Sure. Anytime.

A lot of people still remember diesels as the noisy, sooty, smelly, hard-to-start, marble-can-idle, slug-like, POS'es they were 25 to 30 years ago....and minds change slowly. It's hard to get them to look at.....and face.....the new reality that Blue-Tec and TDI diesels today are virtually no different from gas engines in starting/running. We also see that, to some extent, with today's Hyundais and Kias...........a lot of potential customers are still living in the past, and still think they are sub-standard vehicles, when that is no longer the case.

Also, in addition to the bad memories of the old diesels, some people just don't want to pay the high price of today's diesel fuel and put up with its limited availablity.


Not necessarily. As far as "deal-breaking" goes, I wasn't shopping for a Jetta in the first place.....just reviewing it on request. But you are right.....AWD, for me, is a high priority, even though I live in an area that doesn't normally get huge amounts of snow. AWD does help, however, in other situations as well, like heavy rain, mud, slippery roads from non-winter sources, and mild flood conditions. In addition, it helps cornering grip and feel even on dry pavenent and distributes tire wear more evenly. Of course, it has downsides, too....weight, drag, fuel use, power loss, and complications, at times, with changing flat tires or when you DO have uneven tire treads.

The gas/brake pedal problem was annoying, but not unmanageable.....I experience that on a number of cars I review.....roughly one out of about every 4 or 5. But not everyone has the big, size-15, circus-clown-size shoes I have to wear. Normal adult shoes (say, sizes 7 to 11) usually don't have as much of a hang-up problem. But a lot depends on how the two pedals are arrainged. The ony car that I had a REAL problem inside with....a severe one....in that area was the Lotus Elise, which I reviewed in early August of 2007. That car, for a person my size (6' 2", 270), was absolutely miserable inside. It took me almost 10 minutes just to shoehorn myself inside of it. Once I managed that (the salesperson didn't think I could get inside at all), I found seats, roof, and pedals that were designed for someone about half my size.

Last, there are a number of things I like about VWs and Audis (the DSG, for example, is incomparable), but the unreliable electronics, with the horror stories I hear about them shorting out and possibly becoming dangerous give some cause for concern.

FKL

I'm not trying to be hostile, but I see this blanket "electrical" stuff thrown out around her for virtually every new VAG product that rolls off the lines.

The reality is, bad electronic modules and shorting wires (which were never dangerous, have no idea where that came from) were virtually eliminted with the new generation of cars that started in 2004, nearly four years ago. The Touraeg/Cayenne did have problems in it's first year of production (with the CCM draining the battery) but these were all fixed. The new Jetta and Passat, going into their 4th year of production, have experienced no shorting wire or electronic module problems. The same goes for the last generation of Audi products.

Where this "stigma" comes from is the old Passat (98-05) and Jetta (99-05), not to mention A4 and A6 of the time which shared the same critical modules.

TripleL

Thanks Mmarshall -- regrettably although I speak highly of the new diesels I may be one of those people holding onto the diesels of the past when it comes time to purchase. Since you and I agree so much on cars (esp AWD) I'll work on myself letting go of the past diesels!

mmarshall

I'm not trying to be hostile either, but I go by several sources....Consumer reports, which draws from over a million survey responses, actual experiences that owners have, and what the VW/Audi service people tell me. That is a pretty broad, and reasonably accurate, pool of source daa.

Granted, this doesn't happen every day, but it does happen often enough to cause concern, even with newer VWs. For example, here's what's left of a brand-new 2008 R32 that shorted out and went up. It was just sitting on the lot...the ignition wasn't even on. There are a number of other examples, too, but I don't have time to go through the Internet and post each one of them.

mmarshall

Sure. Anytime.

Well, I'm not saying that diesels are for everybody. The new low-sulfur fuel, granted, is expensive, thanks to CA and EPA regs, and less-widely available than gasoline (that may change in the future, with economies of scale, if diesels become more popular here). Larger Mercedes Blue-Tec diesels also have the added requirement and expense of keeping the urea tanks full....fortunately the VW TDI doesn't. There seems to be an acute shortage of diesel/AWD systems in the American market....though Mercedes may do a diesel/4Matic if there is enough interest. And those who routinely take their engines to high RPM will have to get used to the diesel's lower redlines.....they don't need high RPMs because of their torque.

But if you are one of those who still compares today's auto diesels to the junk (and I mean J-U-N-K) that was hawked off in the late 1970s and early 1980s (Mercedes and Peugeot diesels being about the only exceptions), you can comfortably out those notions out to pasture. Just go take a nice, relaxed test-drive in a new TDI and you will be hard-pressed to tell it from a gas engine....both in starting and running. And, for a non-high-performance car, you will also be rewarded with some nice torque when you hit the gas.....(oops, excuse me.......diesel)......pedal.

TripleL

LMAO