CDNROCKIES

I agree with everything you said here...except....the impact that the loss of suppliers would have on Ford, or at least it's long term impact. I don't see this as being enough to justify the expense of funding GM or Chrysler with a bailout. Since it appears that Ford has postioned themselves better, they would/should be able to make the adjustments necessary to weather any supplier issues.

mmarshall

True to an extent. But I'm talking about the way stock prices work in general. Yes, investors, like you say, CAN buy the stock and not cause a price upswing, but that's often not how it works in the auto industry. That's because in the auto industry, you have mega-buck people like Kirk Kerkorian, who come in and buy enormous blocks of auto stock, get a part-ownership seat on the corporate boards, help push through changes that inflate that company's stock price, then sell out and make a killing. It's all money-driven for profit.....these guys care little or nothing for the actual company itself, except as a short-term money-making machine. Kerkorian, and to a lesser extent, Lee Iacocca, have done this several times. Kerkorian has done it at Chrysler, then GM, then Ford.....and now possibly at GM again.

Is it disgusting? Sure it is. But that's the reality of the big-money corporate world.

RON430

As it stands right now, I don't think either side has much to debate. There more than likely will not be checks cut before maybe April of next year. Pelosi has said she won't call the House back in December and Reid has pretty much said there isn't anything that will pass the Senate before the recess and he won't call them back either. Game over for the present.

So now the big question is what happens over the next maybe six months? Ford, through Mulally, has already said that if the sales rate doesn't get markedly worse, they never did need any money next year. So don't waste the bandwidth talking about F going away. GM and ChryCo just spent two days hinting to the House and the Senate that they can't wait that long. If they can't, they go into bankruptcy. If they can, well I will assume they will have a considerable credibility problem when they go back to Congress to beg for a check after not having the sky fall.

Either way, if the auto companies don't get their handout in the next 48 hours or so, it's a different ballgame. And I wouldn't be all that sure about coming back and getting the $50B next year. They took their best shot and if it didn't work, they already made a problem for next year. Even with Obama in the WH and greater Demo control of Congress. If they are still solvent, even Congress will have a more difficult believing anything they say. If one or more is in bankruptcy, I suspect Congress will be very slow to get into the bankruptcy court proceedings.

The market voted today on what will happen with Ford closing down 25% at a $1.26 and GM 10% at 2.79. Market cap for F is now $3B while GM is $1.7B. ChryCo is of course not public so we don't know about them.

Johnny

The Honda Fit (aka Jazz) was originally targeted at less demanding Asian markets - hence the lower and less costly material and assembly standards. Evidently, that did not change when it landed here years later...

I8ABMR

GM is screwed boys. I think they are not going to get the money. 25 billion to bail out the producers of the trashiest cars sold in america? Capitalism says that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have to go bye bye. The bailout will only buy them time. Who the hell is gonna bail out Joe schmoe when he is bankrupt.

. The consumers will not buy a vehicle from a company that is bankrupt. FACT. why would anyone buy a car from a company that is on the edge. I wouldnt buy the cars because they are trash imo, but if you were so inclined to buy one of these cars, why would you?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Stick a fork in it. It's done. Bankruptcy before Obama's inauguration.

RON430

Looking like a safe bet.

I8ABMR

Capitalism says the big three must go. I would love to see them go as well. They have been screwing the american public with the horrible cars they produce. Their attitude was sell them a car that has every corner cut in design and quality, then when it breaks after in 50k miles they make more money on the repair and sales of parts to the consumers. Then because the parts are the problem the car will repeatedly break down because the same ****ty parts have been reinstalled to repair the piece of junk.

A bailout is unamerican. They run the bussiness into the ground then the tax payers bail them out ????. The system of capitalism rewards the companies that produce the best product at the best price. The american car companies have given us the worst cars at an average price. something doesnt add up

RON430

Ford is the one that said they didn't need any money if things don't get worse. I am beginning to think that GM should go Chapter 7 and let the world pick the bones. Cerberus can figure out it's own resolution to ChryCo. And F should do a prepackaged Chapter 11, let's jettison the UAW and get the taxpayer involved to help them restructure and succeed. I don't like the taxpayer or the gov interfering with private industry or picking winners but that is about all I can see to have something positive come out of this.

bob2200

Consumers who bought DeLorian's and Bricklin's did very well

mmarshall

A moot point, perhaps, but I have to disagree. Overall, I think Dodge/Chrysler products (especially the Nitro, Caliber, and Jeep Compass) are a step below even GM in build quality.

mmarshall

Agreed, it's a big salary, but what's 14M compared to GM? Like I said in an earlier post, it's like counting sand grains at the seashore. And.....it's the equivalent of maybe a couple of hundred GM workers combined, when you figure all their benefits.

However, I don't entirely disagree with you....you're partially correct. It's still a grossly bloated salary either way. And as long as you have what you need and live comfortably, what is one going to do with all that cash? You can only reasonably spend so much of it. The honorable thing to do, IMO, is donate part of it to charity.

Dave600hL

I agree, it is a grain of sand in a beach. But the prolem lies with that kind of mentality (Rick Wagoner) it just does not send the right message. As for how much he recieves and if it is fair I do not want to comment on, but I will say that if he was doing a great job I would not complain with waht he recieves.

I know , being responsible for your employess and they families is not to be taken lightly.

8speed

the horse won't move because he's been beaten to death

LET THEM BURN!

LexFather

Sorry but the organ is cancerous with a few parts NOT cancerous.
Chrysler needs no bailout. THey are useless and make awful products and are not competitive.

Ford and GM are clearly better here and in Europe/China. Let them live, give them life...