GM/F/C bail out talk
#76
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CDN, yes that is my inference. What I'm saying is, if you look at the current GM and Chrysler plan, there isn't a viable plan to return either company to profitiability IMO. I definitely am against handing money out just to hand it out. My feeling is GM and Chrysler absoultely would need to revamp their existing restructuring plan in order to receive bailout money. If they want money, come up with a workable plan first. Not here's the money, now what's your plan.
Ford under Mullaly's leadership has made much progress in trying to turn around Ford. They are most worthy of aid, but as mentioned, Ford really isn't there to seek aid for themselves. Mullaly understands though that GM going under is going to take out or severly weaken the supplier base which absolutely will impact Ford negatively.
Ford under Mullaly's leadership has made much progress in trying to turn around Ford. They are most worthy of aid, but as mentioned, Ford really isn't there to seek aid for themselves. Mullaly understands though that GM going under is going to take out or severly weaken the supplier base which absolutely will impact Ford negatively.
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#77
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That's not how stocks work. Investors can buy GM stock and it could still go down. There are many factors that bring stock up or down not just the purchasing of stock alone will make the stock value go up.
Today GM's stock closed at $2.79/share. It got as low as $2.52/share today. Just last year GM's stock was trading in the low $30's. Please see the link below...
Today GM's stock closed at $2.79/share. It got as low as $2.52/share today. Just last year GM's stock was trading in the low $30's. Please see the link below...
Is it disgusting? Sure it is. But that's the reality of the big-money corporate world.
#78
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As it stands right now, I don't think either side has much to debate. There more than likely will not be checks cut before maybe April of next year. Pelosi has said she won't call the House back in December and Reid has pretty much said there isn't anything that will pass the Senate before the recess and he won't call them back either. Game over for the present.
So now the big question is what happens over the next maybe six months? Ford, through Mulally, has already said that if the sales rate doesn't get markedly worse, they never did need any money next year. So don't waste the bandwidth talking about F going away. GM and ChryCo just spent two days hinting to the House and the Senate that they can't wait that long. If they can't, they go into bankruptcy. If they can, well I will assume they will have a considerable credibility problem when they go back to Congress to beg for a check after not having the sky fall.
Either way, if the auto companies don't get their handout in the next 48 hours or so, it's a different ballgame. And I wouldn't be all that sure about coming back and getting the $50B next year. They took their best shot and if it didn't work, they already made a problem for next year. Even with Obama in the WH and greater Demo control of Congress. If they are still solvent, even Congress will have a more difficult believing anything they say. If one or more is in bankruptcy, I suspect Congress will be very slow to get into the bankruptcy court proceedings.
The market voted today on what will happen with Ford closing down 25% at a $1.26 and GM 10% at 2.79. Market cap for F is now $3B while GM is $1.7B. ChryCo is of course not public so we don't know about them.
So now the big question is what happens over the next maybe six months? Ford, through Mulally, has already said that if the sales rate doesn't get markedly worse, they never did need any money next year. So don't waste the bandwidth talking about F going away. GM and ChryCo just spent two days hinting to the House and the Senate that they can't wait that long. If they can't, they go into bankruptcy. If they can, well I will assume they will have a considerable credibility problem when they go back to Congress to beg for a check after not having the sky fall.
Either way, if the auto companies don't get their handout in the next 48 hours or so, it's a different ballgame. And I wouldn't be all that sure about coming back and getting the $50B next year. They took their best shot and if it didn't work, they already made a problem for next year. Even with Obama in the WH and greater Demo control of Congress. If they are still solvent, even Congress will have a more difficult believing anything they say. If one or more is in bankruptcy, I suspect Congress will be very slow to get into the bankruptcy court proceedings.
The market voted today on what will happen with Ford closing down 25% at a $1.26 and GM 10% at 2.79. Market cap for F is now $3B while GM is $1.7B. ChryCo is of course not public so we don't know about them.
#79
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The Fit is actually one of the few cars that GM can indeed compete with. The Chevy Aveo 2LT, for example (not the base Aveo), simply blows the Fit's versatile but cheaply-done interior away in plushness, quality, and trim. (I'm sure you've seen the photos that me and others have posted). But, of course, the Aveo is not a true GM product, being built by Daewoo of Korea for Chevy.
#80
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GM is screwed boys. I think they are not going to get the money. 25 billion to bail out the producers of the trashiest cars sold in america? Capitalism says that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have to go bye bye. The bailout will only buy them time. Who the hell is gonna bail out Joe schmoe when he is bankrupt.
. The consumers will not buy a vehicle from a company that is bankrupt. FACT. why would anyone buy a car from a company that is on the edge. I wouldnt buy the cars because they are trash imo, but if you were so inclined to buy one of these cars, why would you?
. The consumers will not buy a vehicle from a company that is bankrupt. FACT. why would anyone buy a car from a company that is on the edge. I wouldnt buy the cars because they are trash imo, but if you were so inclined to buy one of these cars, why would you?
Last edited by I8ABMR; 11-19-08 at 07:06 PM.
#81
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Stick a fork in it. It's done. Bankruptcy before Obama's inauguration.
#83
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A bailout is unamerican. They run the bussiness into the ground then the tax payers bail them out ????. The system of capitalism rewards the companies that produce the best product at the best price. The american car companies have given us the worst cars at an average price. something doesnt add up
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Ford is the one that said they didn't need any money if things don't get worse. I am beginning to think that GM should go Chapter 7 and let the world pick the bones. Cerberus can figure out it's own resolution to ChryCo. And F should do a prepackaged Chapter 11, let's jettison the UAW and get the taxpayer involved to help them restructure and succeed. I don't like the taxpayer or the gov interfering with private industry or picking winners but that is about all I can see to have something positive come out of this.
#86
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#87
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I have tried to stay away from comparing companies, but although I agree with you, you have to wonder why in 2007 Rick Wagoner netted $14.4m, this figure is more than the combined amount that the top 9 executives of Toyota recived that year. Think about that for a while.
However, I don't entirely disagree with you....you're partially correct. It's still a grossly bloated salary either way. And as long as you have what you need and live comfortably, what is one going to do with all that cash? You can only reasonably spend so much of it. The honorable thing to do, IMO, is donate part of it to charity.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-19-08 at 08:14 PM.
#88
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Agreed, it's a big salary, but what's 14M compared to GM? Like I said in an earlier post, it's like counting sand grains at the seashore. And.....it's the equivalent of maybe a couple of hundred GM workers combined, when you figure all their benefits.
However, I don't entirely disagree with you....you're partially correct. It's still a grossly bloated salary either way. And as long as you have what you need and live comfortably, what is one going to do with all that cash? You can only reasonably spend so much of it. The honorable thing to do, IMO, is donate part of it to charity.
However, I don't entirely disagree with you....you're partially correct. It's still a grossly bloated salary either way. And as long as you have what you need and live comfortably, what is one going to do with all that cash? You can only reasonably spend so much of it. The honorable thing to do, IMO, is donate part of it to charity.
I know , being responsible for your employess and they families is not to be taken lightly.
#90
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I couldn't disagree more. This blanket statement to fire all Execs and Board of Directors is ridiculous. Why? Because each individual brings something different to the table, and not everyone in the leadership position is without foresight and insight. There's no doubt within each corporation there are some "cancerous" executives. But cutting the whole organ because there is some cancerous parts doesn't address a thing.
However, if you actually craft a plan that puts in place accountability and examine each person's individual performance, then that makes more sense than a blanket statement of fire them all.
All it takes is a little reading into what's been taking place at Capitol Hill and into the know turnaround plans to see the difference in leadership and attitude between Wagoner, Mullaly, and Nardelli.
If the government actually looked at these three corporations and based bailout money on viability of turnaround plan, survivability and likelihood of success, it should be clear where money should go.
However, if you actually craft a plan that puts in place accountability and examine each person's individual performance, then that makes more sense than a blanket statement of fire them all.
All it takes is a little reading into what's been taking place at Capitol Hill and into the know turnaround plans to see the difference in leadership and attitude between Wagoner, Mullaly, and Nardelli.
If the government actually looked at these three corporations and based bailout money on viability of turnaround plan, survivability and likelihood of success, it should be clear where money should go.
Chrysler needs no bailout. THey are useless and make awful products and are not competitive.
Ford and GM are clearly better here and in Europe/China. Let them live, give them life...