BMW M3 recalled over new double-clutch gearbox
11-21-08, 03:45 PM
#31
11-21-08, 06:28 PM
#32
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I think the c63 and m3 sedan, not to mention RS4 rule the sports sedan class. IS-F is a nice car, I don't think it holds up to the Germans in all out driving...fast, but a few tics of a second doesn't make a car.
11-21-08, 07:31 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO9_9xdwWWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDL5hiEMto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIIieUFH0M
you unfortunately can't have it your way!
11-22-08, 04:15 PM
#34
Fine....I'm glad for you. 
The Stealth Turbo and 3000GT VR4 were great as long as they didn't break down. If and when they did, depending on the problem, it could be a nightmare. 
The IS-F would be my next car no doubt if Lex put in the V160 or any manual tranny....
Drive an LS-F over rough roads and pavement warps/heaves before you make up your mind. This car has a very harsh ride over anything but glass-smooth pavement. The one I reviewed last April bucked up and down like a porpoise over bumps from the overly-stiff rear end.
The Stealth Turbo and 3000GT VR4 were great as long as they didn't break down. If and when they did, depending on the problem, it could be a nightmare. The IS-F would be my next car no doubt if Lex put in the V160 or any manual tranny....
Drive an LS-F over rough roads and pavement warps/heaves before you make up your mind. This car has a very harsh ride over anything but glass-smooth pavement. The one I reviewed last April bucked up and down like a porpoise over bumps from the overly-stiff rear end.
Ah... ok...I dont mind the harsh ride, just wish the IS-F was a true manual,,
11-22-08, 06:51 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
The SMG is not a "slushbox" pre se. A slushbox, by definition, has a torque converter filled with fluid. The SMG is simply a computer-shifted manual transmission with all-mechanical, not fluid, connections, and no separate clutch pedal. The DSG (also not a slushbox), fits this category too, except that it is generally much smoother-shifting, and has complex, automated dual clutches.
11-23-08, 01:08 PM
#37
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Well being an IS-F owner and having previously driven the new M3, and RS4 I am going to have to disagree. The IS-F holds up extremely well against it's peers. Given the fact that you don't own either of the four cars you mentioned, I'm not going to hold any merit to your comments. If you don't believe me, try doing some research
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO9_9xdwWWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDL5hiEMto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIIieUFH0M
you unfortunately can't have it your way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO9_9xdwWWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDL5hiEMto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIIieUFH0M
you unfortunately can't have it your way!
Wouldn't owning the car make you more suseptable to having a bias? Yeah....
I don't own either, I've driven the RS4 and the IS-F. I wish to god I could have driven the other Germans, but getween the Audi and Lexus it's pretty obvious I was in a German car. Plus what's up with the bizzaro psuedo stacked tail pipes on the Lexus? Weird. It's a fast fast beast, no doubt, and is well...fast. But I thought the Audi felt more "designed" and egineered. Looking at the engine bays confirms this suspiscion. Plus the Audi looks better, inside and out (my opinion).
I don't have to hold back all my constructual criticisms becuase it may hurt your feelings. I'm not trying to help you justify your purchase. You may not want to take anyone else seriously, but why should everyone take your view on this as god when you have a conflict of interest to look at this objectively? That's fine if you like your Lexus, that doesn't mean that nobody on here can disagree with you without elliciting rude and snide remarks. You can't have it your way, becuase well..that doesn't make much sense.
Oh, and you can post those comparions, but every major magazine has rated the Germans as above the Lexus. Valliant first effort, but it's obvious to them who's been doing this longer. That doesn't mean the IS-F is a terrible car, I think it's just excellent...but in this class the degree of excellent-ness is what makes all the difference.
Last edited by FKL; 11-23-08 at 01:16 PM.
11-23-08, 01:42 PM
#39
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but every major magazine has rated the Germans as above the Lexus. Valliant first effort, but it's obvious to them who's been doing this longer. That doesn't mean the IS-F is a terrible car, I think it's just excellent...but in this class the degree of excellent-ness is what makes all the difference.
Top Gear also tested the four and writer said while its a "tie" he would take the IS-F.
Unfortunately, most just read BMW & Honda aka Car & Driver, Motor Turds and Road & Track and believe everything they say. The IS-F never embarrassed itself in reviews, it seems to have lost purely on very subjective figures.
11-23-08, 01:49 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Actually EVO gave the IS-F 5 stars, the same as the RS4 and M3.
Top Gear also tested the four and writer said while its a "tie" he would take the IS-F.
Unfortunately, most just read BMW & Honda aka Car & Driver, Motor Turds and Road & Track and believe everything they say. The IS-F never embarrassed itself in reviews, it seems to have lost purely on very subjective figures.
Top Gear also tested the four and writer said while its a "tie" he would take the IS-F.
Unfortunately, most just read BMW & Honda aka Car & Driver, Motor Turds and Road & Track and believe everything they say. The IS-F never embarrassed itself in reviews, it seems to have lost purely on very subjective figures.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-23-08 at 01:56 PM.
11-23-08, 01:58 PM
#41
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The IS-F is a great sports sedan, no question about it, if you can put up with its overly-harsh suspension on rough roads. When the torque really starts coming on between 3600-4000 RPM, few sedans outside of a Mercedes AMG can keep up with it. The SMG IS-F I drove last spring, for example, felt faster in street driving than the new manual-transmission M3 I drove a few weeks later, primarily because of torque. The M3, with 414 HP, has only 295 ft-lbs, of torque.....less than its own brother 335i with 300-305 ft-lbs. (one of many reasons why I recommend the much cheaper 335i over the M3 as a better value).
I'd be happy with any!
11-23-08, 02:04 PM
#42
Pole Position
The last place I look when looking for unbiased and objective reporting is a car mag. The media types have a very narrow window of opportunity to evaluate and assess a car's performance. Better to borrow a rental car to make your own judgement... 
11-23-08, 02:08 PM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
The IS-F is a great sports sedan, no question about it, if you can put up with its overly-harsh suspension on rough roads. When the torque really starts coming on between 3600-4000 RPM, few sedans outside of a Mercedes AMG can keep up with it. The SMG IS-F I drove last spring, for example, felt faster in street driving than the new manual-transmission M3 I drove a few weeks later, primarily because of torque. The M3, with 414 HP, has only 295 ft-lbs, of torque.....less than its own brother 335i with 300-305 ft-lbs. (one of many reasons why I recommend the much cheaper 335i over the M3 as a better value).
Anyway, don't let the torque on the M3 full you.....it comes on early and stays all the way to 8,000 rpms. For a 4 liter it's one of the best in the world. Much cheaper? The 335i coupe retails for 45k
I would take the new M3 all day over the 335i......just my opinion!
Last edited by 8speed; 11-23-08 at 02:11 PM.
11-23-08, 02:14 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Word.......I've driven all but the new C63 which is a beast. New Renntech stage 1 tune and that car is running high 11's with ease
11-23-08, 02:54 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
No, we're both wrong. I meant a full-automatic LS-F, not an SMG. And the M3 I drove was a full 3-pedal manual.
Yes, I know the M3 is probably better than the 335i on a full-track setting. But in typical street use, and at the RPMs where most where most people drive, the 335i seemed more pleasant an overall sports sedan. The 335i I reviewed was 47K....the M3 I reviewed well over 60K. The M3 I reviewed also had poorly quality control, with major defects in the rear seat (the whole center pull-down section was not attached properly and just fell right down on the floor) and the power drivers' seat (the electric seat adjustment motors would not work correctly, and it took a long time to get the seat adjusted right).
I felt then, and still do, that for street driving, where one rarely, if ever, goes to the 8000 RPM HP peak, the 335i not only makes more sense, but is cheaper and more pleasant to drive, even with the stiffer Sport Package, than the harshly-sprung and more expensive M3.
However, I fully respect your opinion on the M3, and I understand your reasoning for it.
Anyway, don't let the torque on the M3 full you.....it comes on early and stays all the way to 8,000 rpms. For a 4 liter it's one of the best in the world. Much cheaper? The 335i coupe retails for 45k I would take the new M3 all day over the 335i......just my opinion!
I would take the new M3 all day over the 335i......just my opinion!
I felt then, and still do, that for street driving, where one rarely, if ever, goes to the 8000 RPM HP peak, the 335i not only makes more sense, but is cheaper and more pleasant to drive, even with the stiffer Sport Package, than the harshly-sprung and more expensive M3.
However, I fully respect your opinion on the M3, and I understand your reasoning for it.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-23-08 at 02:59 PM.