UDel

This again was not a Honda/Acura press release or even an executive leaking out information but just another "rumor" from a so called "insider" who told someone at Edmunds. Seems someone is too quick to judge and cannot tell the difference between Acura releasing info/making statements and the numerous rumors and stories that constantly swirl around magazines and the internet by these "insider sources" which gets this person in a tizzy everytime Acura is mentioned or makes news. It is funny reading all the anger and bashing of Acura just based on what Car Mags and the Internet predictions and rumors that come out in which Acura nor their execs have verified and often deny. 95% of this new NSX talk, v8 talk, rwd talk, larger flagship, convertable talk we have read and heard over the years is not being released by Acura or its execs but simply predictions and rumors started by Car and Driver, Automobile, Road and Track, Motor Trend, Edmunds, and their so called inside information by their insiders which are usually wrong about Acura as well as other companies. I too have read about the upcoming prediction of a v8 rwd RL, new v8 mid engined NSX, S2000 based Acura 4 door sports sedan, etc since 1997 and they were all wrong and just rumors from these "insiders"(who are these insiders and why are they never named, are they even payed since they are so often wrong).

You can't keep blaming and getting in a tizzy at Acura or its execs for all these "leaks", "rumors", and inside information that makes it way in magazines and the internet because Acura is not releasing this information. Most of the information Acura releases like upcoming v10 NSX replacement(we have seen the amost finished prototypes running the ring) upcoming rwd flagship(we have seen a large rwd Acura sedan being tested), seem credible. Acura until recently never to my knowledge officially said they are building and will be releasing a v8, never mentioned a new mid engined v8 NSX, or will be releasing a all rwd lineup, these have been rumors started not by them all along. This "inside source" at Acura and insider information that says no v8 until 2015 simply cannot be considered credible until Acura or a higher up like Takeo Fukui officially says it. So far Fukui said a v8 is in the works and will be used in a upcoming rwd flagship, by his language it would be interpreted that it will be sooner then 2015 but he never gave an exact date. What is also pretty big news from the "insider" is that Acura will be coming out with rwd vehicles soon to compete with the 3, 5, and 7 series but again it is just a "rumor" from a uncredible insider.

Actually some of those rumors about a v8 in a RL turned out to be true because in 99-00 Acura did build a v8 for possible rwd RL prototype and was planning on releasing it but it was axed because the performance was not a big step above their v6 and they could not justify all the R&D and tooling for a car that may not make much of a spike in sales.

I too think Acura should have had a v8 option in a rwd car out a long time ago mainly just to shut up critics about them not offering v8s but it has not happened, it is disappointing if a v8 is not coming out by 2015 if that rumor is true and Acura should just build the damn v8 already instead of putting it off and predicting the economy but they are a successful business and releasing a new v8 in a expensive big car when gas prices are sky high and the economy is in the dumps does not make much financial and business sense. Maybe instead of a v8 they will just put a detuned v10 from the upcoming NSX replacement as an option in the flagship, that could be interesting.

People are predicting the failure of Acura just because of a recent controversial beak put on some of its vehicles and some polarizing styling that can be easily changed if it turns too many people off and affects sales negatively. Acura is going to be fine and still sells very well. It is not like Acura has suddenly turned into making cars that break down all the time, fall apart, known for poor quality, or can't compete with the competition, they just have some controversial styling much like Bangle BMWs which have not killed BMW and can be corrected easily if need be.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i heard that a few times before already too, but didn't really bother to find out more. but then again i think it's ok. if you think about the ls430 and gs430 back then, i believe the gs430 had 300hp and the ls430 had 290.

mmarshall

I'll see some Acura reps next month at the D.C. Auto Show. This is one of the issues I plan to bring up with them. I also plan to speak to them on the cheapening of the new TSX's interior....fortunately, not as bad with the new TL.

Audi, however, is managing to sell its products with what, IMO, are equally silly grilles, without altering them.

FKL

I completely, one hundered percent, disagree. The Audi design language has been a success not just in North America, but in Asian and European countries around the globe. When Acura's grill can compete with that global scale, we'll discuss who's grille is more attractive to a global audience.

FKL

I own a Honda products that have been affected by this, I've had my transmission replaced in my 2002 Accord EX V6. I think I would know a thing or two more than you regarding how Honda has dealth with this situation. Honda of America will generall help with a new transmission, even if the car is out of the mileage window of the warranty extention (100K). They knew there was a problem, and fully rectified it in the Accord in the 2003 model year. The TL still had some minor problems going into the 2004 model year when it was redesigned, yet it was nowhere near the scale or scope of the 99-03 failures. This goes for the Odyssey, Pilot and MDX as well. The 3rd gear grinding issue is caused by syncros, and will not cuase the transmission to fail. Honda has TSB to correct this. Talk about blowing things out of proportion (I also have an 04 Manual Accord).

You can't hammer Honda and suddenly forget all of the recalls Toyota has had lately, the problems with Tundra axles snapping, with Camry transmissions having issues, and with the infamous sludge debacle of the late 90s and early 2000s. This mentality that only Honda does wrong is just factually inaccurate. There is no debate that Honda is not a transmission company, as it is my opinion they should have bought from ZF or another vendor if they wanted reliable parts. In spite of this, both of the Accords I own eclipse the garbage Camry Toyota was trying to peddle off at the time. The Solara can't even begin to compete with my 2004 coupe, espcially when comparing the 4cyl engines - I would know, I test drove an I4 Soloara, noisy, uninvolving, ugly. The 2002 Accord blasts the overpriced boat-like 97-01 camry out of the water.

ST430

Hmm so you test drove one and based you opinion on that? Let me see, I've owned (amongst many other cars):

1999 Accord Coupe
2001 Camry Solara
2006 Accord Coupe

The Accords felt like a toaster appliance. Nothing exciting, not even in V6 form (if you don't try to rev it due to the crappy tranny). But Honda, at the time, got the styling down just right! Loved the wedge shape of the 99 accord, and the Mercedes CL-esque profile of the 2006.

My only Solara was undeniable a still-born lexus: eerily quiet inside for a frameless window coupe, nice un-offensive wood trim standard, great materials all around, and very inviting cockpit to drive in. I've always thought of the Solara as the ES Coupe that Lexus always wanted to make, but corporate Toyco said no to. The styling though is very polarizing, and the ride very comfortable, perfect for everyday commuting. If you're pretending these FWD coupes as sports-cars, you really need to level-set your expectations and go drive a real RWD/AWD car.

UDel

I totally disagree especially about how you say Acura/Honda has addressed reliability/quality issues vs how Lexus/Toyota have addressed all their issues. In my experience there is a huge difference how Lexus and Acura have generally handled their reliability problems/issues and Lexus has not been close to doing a better job then Acura.

Take the 2nd Gen GS which I own right now, it is a serious lower ball joint failure design defect issue, a major expensive door lock actuator faulty design/design defect issue, suspension rattle/squeak issues, interior rattle issues, big moisture in the headlight issues, starter issues, etc. Lexus has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address these major design defects.

Just today there is someone on CL whose ball joint just failed while his wife and child were driving his Lexus GS and his front tire fell off and they almost slammed into a telephone pole, luckily they were going slow and not going fast or else their probably would have been a serious injury or death. The amount of premature ball joint failures on the 2nd Gen GS is staggering and even more staggering how Lexus continues to ignore the issue and say nothing is wrong with their widely known design defect. They have not even bothered to try and notify and warn current GS owners that there is a serious safety hazard and issue with this car and taken the steps to rectify it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Corporate will tell you these are just random incidents and there is nothing wrong or unsafe with what is on the cars. Try having them take some kind of responsibility for it after the warranty that they did not extend for this design defect issue and they pretty much laugh at you.

Every day I read about someone else with door lock actuator failures which Lexus has also totally ignored. I have been quoted $520 from Lexus just to fix one door lock actuator and when I notified corporate they said there was no issue and it was a isolated incident. Even though my car was only a month and a half passed warranty and I had 47K miles Lexus refused to offer any kind of assistance after I want through all the steps of officially getting the problem diagnosed at the dealership and making all the phone calls. That is not treating your customers with any kind of respect or care. They also denied there was an issue with the moisture in my headlights even though it is very well known. Just having 2 actuators go out which is common costs what you would pay for major engine/transmission work to fix and Lexus will not budge once it is out of warranty even though it is a very well known design defect.

I take my Lexus to the dealer a couple times to try to diagnose the terrible suspension squeaks and all they want to do is keep charging me for all these TSB repairs/adjustments to try and diagnose the issue which they still do not do but I had to pay over $150 for them to try, sorry I am not too impressed with Lexus addressing issues or taking care of its customers.

Lexus has also recently told the people all the issues with the new 6 speed transmission and the rpm flashing that they are having is just normal and how it was designed and refuse to address it, leaving many angry owners. How is that good customer service or taking car of reliability issues. The new GS, IS has had numerous issues I read about all the time and the GS awd was placed on the not recommended list of consumer reports. Toyota models also have tons of issues and problems with the new Camry and Tundra topping the list. How about the engine sludge failures issue with the Toyota/Lexus V6 they ignored and never addressed until owners threatened to sue them.

I know no company including Lexus is perfect nor do I expect them to be but the way they have been handling many issue and problems is unacceptable especially with the 2nd Gen GS door lock actuators, lower ball joints, ES350 engine/transmission issues.

If you are going to bring up the Acura transmission issues particularly with the 2000-2003 5 speed auto TLs, Acura has done a much better job then Lexus at addressing their issues. My parents owned a 99TL and own a 03CL and Acura mailed them 2 seperate notices saying some cars may hava trans issue and it needs to be taken to the dealer and looked at to see if it is affected and a extra lubrication tube will be added, they also extended their warranties to 100K miles even on the 99 with the 4 speed auto that did not have the trans issue. Although it is not perfect it was a very reasonable way of addressing the issue compared to just ignoring it and not extending warranties. The only issue with my moms 99TL is it had a EGR valve blockage diagnosis after a light came on that was going to cost over $300 to fix, the car was well passed warranty for it with close to 100K miles but when she called Acura corporate and said she read there was an issue they said not to worry and they will pay for the repair in full, that is properly addressing issues and taking care of your customers.

The lower ball joint premature failure issue is a very big safety issue and much bigger then just a transmission going out. I have driven a car when the transmission was slipping and went out and I never lost control or almost got into an accident like what will happen when your lower ball joints goes and crushes your suspension or causes your wheel to come off. This is just a disaster waiting to happen and Lexus is ignoring and will ignore it until something terrible happens and they are about to be exposed. They don't want to address it because they don't want to fault their high quality/reliability ratings and reputations.

Lexus nor Acura are not perfect nor do I expect them to even be close to perfect but the way Lexus has handled many of its known issues and treats you once you are out of warranty is unacceptable and has highly disappointed me and I while owning the GS I wish I was treated as well as Acura has treated my parents and others Acura owners I know. I don't care how much people are fans of the brand there are some instances where they should not always be blindly defended and it should be demanded they conduct themselves better.

FKL

Yeah, I own a 2002 EX V6 Accord. The Camry of the same generation is the "toaster appliance". Numb over assited steering with virtually zero feedback, boat-like driving dynamics, and interior ergonomics that are not up to the Accords. The Accord is just more sporty (yet isn't as sporty as the Passat). I also have a 2004 Accord EX coupe with navitation and leather. Again, sorry to say the Accord is much more involving than the Solara, and again has better interior ergonomics (did Toyota ever have a nav package this good? I can say any command I want and it will do - climate control 67 for example). Again, the 2.4L i-VTEC was a far better motor than whatever I4 was in the Solara. It was noisy and did not sound anywhere near as well made as the iVTEC, especiallay at high RPMs. This car does 7.5 seconds to 60 with the manual, I think that's pretty good for a car that also averages 33mpg on the highway. Again, I have thoroughly critisized some cheap build issues compared to the Passat and VWs, but Honda is at least superior to the Camry/Solara of the time (this has changed with the newest Camry, which I'd take over the Accord in a heartbeat). I've critisized Honda heavily on this website, so I am not some coolaid drinker, but I will call it like I see them, and in this case, that generation of Camry/Solara was just numb and boring, not to mention extremely ugly (97-01).

UDel

Honda/Acura v6 engines are still among the smoothest engines currently available despite the basic engine being a pretty old design, much older then the competition and not having newer technologies like direct injection. Some reviews comparing the TL-S, G35, IS350 mentioned the TLs engine was the smoothest. Even the newer G37 engine is still be criticized for being pretty rough at higher revs. Acura/Honda power is still impressive despite being older, using SOHC design, no direct injection, saddled to 5 speed autos,etc and they are still very competitive. Honda/Acura is a little late in the new engine, multi speed trans, DI, game but I am sure when the new series of v6 comes out they will be top of their game and will set new standards.

I have driven several Acuras and Hondas and own a v8 Lexus and I don't understand how you think they are somehow difficult to drive in bad weather and annoying to drive in the city, especially Acura vehicles because of their engines. If anything a heavy rwd car with a torquey v8 like my Lexus is the more difficult and dangerous car to drive in rain and winter conditions and I have experienced that first hand with a few close calls. FWD is always better then rwd to drive in wet/winter conditions especially a rwd vehicle with a big torquey engine. Acura engines are generally not known to have a ton of lowdown torque and make more power higher in the rev range but they are anything but underpowered or insufficient for driving around the city or for passing, they have more then enough power for everyday driving in any conditions. Even the 4 cyl TSX I test drove had decent power. The MDXs, RDX, RLs, have plenty of torque down low, more then enough, and I never felt wanting for more torque . My parents TLs and CLs have plenty of torque and power and have never bothered me even coming from 325lb of torque from my Lexus.

There really are not too many segments around the world aside from the US that demands high torque engines, most segments demand fuel efficiency, less pollution, and smaller displacement which Honda does very well. Most engines sold in Europe even in big rwd flagships are 6 cylinders and diesels, not high torque big gasoline engines.

After driving the new 09 TL and driving the 08 I don't find their engines lacking in power or refinement, they are still excellent. They don't have the torque of my v8 but then again they get much better fuel economy too and are much less expensive. Their are a few cars now with more power and that are quicker in the segment but not many and it is not a very big difference. When the new v6 arrives and multi speed trans arrive they will be tops in their segment again, Acura/Honda have just taken more time with these engines.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Not a very big difference?

Sure the V6 in the '09 TL also makes 300+ hp but the acceleration time is not that good when compares to the competitors. Everything is comparative in the car business so "still good" or "good enough" doesn't cut it, especially in the highly competitive entry-lux market. Sure a SOHC V6 without DI putting out 300+ is pretty impressive but let's not forget, moral victory is NOT a real victory. Honda/Acura can stay home and feel good about their SOHC V6 or they can step up and deliver.

So you are expecting the competitors to stand still and let Honda/Acura catch up? Come on...

Like 1Sick I was a huge Honda/Acura fan back in the 90s and still am to a point. I had a '90 Acura Legend as my high school car and a '97 Accord got me through college and grad school. My heart was dead set on the TL when I got my offer but that changed rather quickly after a test drive in the IS350. I whole heartily want Acura to succeed because I wish that one day I can be an Acura owner again.

mmarshall

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. First, of all, the issue did not deal with the worldwide market; only those countries where Acura sells vehicles under their own nameplate. Acura obviously doesn't compete with Audi in markets where they don't exist under that nameplate. Second, I'm not saying that I LIKE the new Acura grille; in fact, I don't. IMO, it's as ugly, if not more so, than the big Audi fish-mouth grilles. My point was that if Audi can sell its grille, Acura probably will be able to do so too....at least in the markets where it does buisness. If it can't, then Acura designers will be forced to make a styling change.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i don't really understand why you keep on pulling toyota into the talk. first of all, i didn't give toyota any better credit for their quality issues lately (search my posts if you want), but regardless of toyota, i look at honda by itself, why would other brand matter? and if you really want to talk, i have read so many honda / acura owners with blown trannies and car dead on the side of the road, got into accident on freeways, etc... toyota tranny has glitches, shifts weird, but i don't hear considerable number of tranny blowups?

back to honda / acura. you might had good results with your tranny, but what does that prove? one data point? my tl-s i sold it at 18k miles and the tranny was slipping already, acura didn't do anything coz' the car was still "running". my friend blew his tranny after warranty and acura refused to replace (this was before warranty extension) and he ended up paying for a replacement. so what does that say?

if you want, look at honda and their stuff alone, leave other companies out. other companies doing bad as well doesn't make honda prettier.

Gojirra99

I can't say I like either of them, but the present Audi grilles look A LOT better than the Acura grilles.

mmarshall

I partially agree. That, to some extent, is like saying that Rosie O'Donnell is better-looking than Whoopie Goldberg.

nabbun

hmmm i'm not touching that one but, Audi's grille looks helluva lot better imo than acura's.

and just because audi has an ugly grille and sells well doesn't mean acura can sell their cars well with an ugly grille also.

i believe more people find the acura's grille much uglier if not the entire car not as good looking as a complete package than audi's.

that's why audi can still sell well and not acura.

also, audi has more to offer than acura.

if you give a test group of people from all over the US and other markets where acura and audi sell their cars under their own nameplates and told them you have no limits in funds, which car from which company would you choose.

i'd say at least 75% would choose audi. and the "fish-mouth" grille would not be on their minds.