mmarshall

Possibly.....but that was not what I had intended. I think you'll like my intended holiday review even more, if I can get a test-drive.

SLegacy99

After watching Topgear, I'd like to try the Legacy diesel. Though Im kind of surprised that they didn't put the 6 speed manual in that car. What is it with this company?

mmarshall

Subarus, in general, outside of the high-performance WRX/STi models and those who want a cheap base Impreza, have not sold well with manuals. You won't find many Legacys, Outbacks, or Foresters (even turbo models) with them. Even the turbo Forester XT, which formerly offered a manual, dropped it for the 2008 redesign....it now comes only with automatic.

This is because Subarus in general, outside of a few I mentioned above, appeal to a group of people who usually don't drive hard, and buy them mostly for their AWD traction and good reliability.

I'm with you on the Legacy/Outback diesel, though.....I can't wait to try one out myself (it is already on sale in Europe), just to see how well it mates with the AWD system.

SLegacy99

And I've heard alot of complaints from the enthusiasts about this. And when they dropped the 5MT Legacy/Outback Wagon. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to me for Subaru to make one for a customer if they ordered it. Afterall, Subaru buyers tend to be pretty loyal. Might as well keep em happy.

CDNROCKIES

I want to start with giving a huge THANK YOU to mmarshal. I was the member who requested info on the ML Bluetec as we think we are debating whether to get the new RX or not. I appreciate his objective, plainly worded reviews...even though I still disagree with his stance on the rough ride of the IS F.

As usual, looks are a very subjective conversation. We personally like this better than the '04 that we test drove before deciding on the RX.

I would like to open this discussion to the merits of the "greeness" of both vehicles. The reason we were considering the new RX450h was for the "green" aspect. We actually do more highway than city driving, so the benefits of the hybrid are not great, so in reality the RX350 is all we really need.

When we saw the ML Bluetec we were very impressed with the improvements that they had made...especially the interior. To be blunt, the '04 ML we test drove was beyond dissappointing inside. The new one, with the updated exterior, was very impressive inside. The 1000 km per tank is impressive (mpg doesn't really matter...just like the idea of only having to fill up periodically), as is the reduction of emissions by 80%...all the time!

So I guess the question becomes...is only 20% emissions all the time better than 100% emissions part of the time (ie. highway driving) and 0 emissions some of the time (ie. city driving)???

I8ABMR

I am excited about the new generation diesel motors. They are torque monsters

mmarshall

Well, I don't necessarily disagree with you. You have a point. Subaru makes some great cars (my personal favorites, too, below 35K), but there's a number of things in their marketing I don't like either.

They dropped the Forester XT manual, though, from low sales. The manual Forester XT "enthusiasts" you refer to (and I've heard them, too...I read Subie forums) are loud on the Internet, but didn't actually represent a lot of sales and money.

Subaru does make changes, though, and reconsider things, if enough customers complain. The new Impreza/Outback Sport is a good example. A lot of people complained last year, on the 2008 redesign, that road/tire noise was excessive (it was indeed......I noticed that while test-driving them). This year, there is additional insulation in the wheel wells and cabin.

mmarshall

And the torque comes on as low as 1500 RPM...barely above idle. You don't have to wind them up to huge RPMs like Honda/Toyota VTEC fours and some BMW M engines.

SLegacy99

Well from what we hear the RX450h should be pulling away from the 350 in terms of both highway and city fuel economy. However, if the 350 gets the 6AT (and hopefully it will) it too will get better gas mileage.

But let's compare some emission #s just for fun


Tons of CO2 anually, air pollution score
ML 350: 10.8, 6 out of 10
ML 320 bluetec: 10.6, 6 out of 10 (vs. a score of 1 for the CDI)

RX 350: 9.6, 6 out of 10
RX400h: 7.3, 8 out of 10

Interesting.

mmarshall

Sure. Anytime. Some more of them coming up soon.....I've got several requests.



I guess each to his own. I just don't like a harsh ride, that's all......never did, even if sharp handling is the result. But on the other hand, I equally dislike excessive mushiness and understeer, too, like on, say, the Kia Rondo.

In my experience, BMW, in general, does the best job of combining both good ride, steering feel, and handling characteristics in one car. BMW chassis engineers really know their stuff. Mercedes chassis engineers, on some of their models, are almost as good.....but the ML, of course, was not intended for sports-car handling. It is an all-weather people-mover, with some off-road capability.





Keep a few things in mind, though. With the Bluetec, you will get good mileage out of it, good low-end torque, docile gas-engine start-up/running characteristics without the annoying diesel faults of yesteryear, and far less mechanical complexity than a Lexus hybrid (see my earlier reply to spwolf on this matter). But the low-sulfur diesel fuel required by the Bluetec/TDI technology, even with its good mileage, is expensive (in my part of the country it averages $1.00 more than premium gas) and is not available at all gas stations....you sometimes have to hunt for it. You will have to periodically refill the diesel's urea-injection tanks, probably at your expense....Mercedes doesn't cover that. And, despite the greater mechanical/electrical complexity of the Lexus RX450H (and, of course, the less-complex RX350), both will both probably be more reliable than the ML320.

Matters

Wonderful review as per usual. In fact they just keep getting better and better. You should set up your own website mate.

If you have time and find yourself around a Volvo XC70 or XC90, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

mmarshall

Thanks. At this time, I don't want to fool around with a separate web site. My reviews, mostly by request, and postings seem to have found a home at CL. They fit in well with CAR CHAT, although I do send copies of them out on a regular E-mailing list.

I'm also not the only one at CL who does reviews....Mike (SICKLEX) also does, although his are done in a different format than mine. Occasionally, other CL members will also do one.

OK....it's on the list. Right now the next scheduled review is the special, end-of-year Holiday review. I'm not going to spill the beans on that one.