Edmunds Comparo: CTS-v vs. C63 AMG vs. M5
12-03-08, 06:23 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Edmunds is crap! Those guys don't know what they are doing!
(sorry, just trying to fit in with the CL crowd when their favorite car does not win a comparo...)
j/k - sort of...
IMHO, the CTS-V competes with the M5. They are the same size and have nice big engines. I do expect them to be cross shopped and if Caddy has its refinement up they will take some M5 sales away (for sure now as the car is hot). Still this is a slow selling segment.
To me, I just don't see the CTS-V and the M3 being cross shopped - one is a torque monster (and heavy), the other is a lightweight (comparatively speaking) high revving machine. Alas, the price point is an excellent one (the point that the CTS-V and M3 do share a similar price point).
Of course... in the R&T track comparo, the M5 and CTS-V were about the exact same in terms of road course timings and well, I sort of would expect the CTS-V to have done better because of its power advantage (yea, that's me digging at the competition
)
(sorry, just trying to fit in with the CL crowd when their favorite car does not win a comparo...)
j/k - sort of...
IMHO, the CTS-V competes with the M5. They are the same size and have nice big engines. I do expect them to be cross shopped and if Caddy has its refinement up they will take some M5 sales away (for sure now as the car is hot). Still this is a slow selling segment.
To me, I just don't see the CTS-V and the M3 being cross shopped - one is a torque monster (and heavy), the other is a lightweight (comparatively speaking) high revving machine. Alas, the price point is an excellent one (the point that the CTS-V and M3 do share a similar price point).
Of course... in the R&T track comparo, the M5 and CTS-V were about the exact same in terms of road course timings and well, I sort of would expect the CTS-V to have done better because of its power advantage (yea, that's me digging at the competition
)This is a CTS-v vs. Comparison. They are not necessarily comparing the C63 to the M5. The focus is on the Caddy. Caddillac said they built the CTS-V to compete against the M5, E63, RS6. That was the benchmark. Plus the power, weight, and dimensions are more comparable to the M5. So obviously since that was the benchmark for the CTSv, it would only be right to have a comparison with the M5 (and you will see plenty more CTS-V comparisons like this one in the future). They also clearly acknowledged that the M5 is not in the same price category. Thus the reason for the C63...
The C63 is there because it is the next most powerful car, plus the price is more comparable.
To be completely honest, the CTS-V has no direct competitor from a performance and price standpoint. They wanted something with comparable performance (M5) and comparable price (C63).
Maybe it would have been more interesting to see the M3 instead of the C63, but two BMW's in one comparison test is boring IMO.
The review IMO shows how good of a performance value the Caddy really is.
The C63 is there because it is the next most powerful car, plus the price is more comparable.
To be completely honest, the CTS-V has no direct competitor from a performance and price standpoint. They wanted something with comparable performance (M5) and comparable price (C63).
Maybe it would have been more interesting to see the M3 instead of the C63, but two BMW's in one comparison test is boring IMO.
The review IMO shows how good of a performance value the Caddy really is.
12-03-08, 06:59 AM
#18
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
IMHO looks-wise I don't think the CTS-V can compare to the M5. M5 is classy, sporty, and an overall elegant design compared to the CTS-V. CTS-V looks cheap with that mesh on the front end. I think the different styling and design of the two, as well as differing performance philosophies will make cross shopping unlikely. M5 has a screaming V10, CTS-V has a more burbly, turbine-like supercharged V8.
I'm sure there will be tests comparing it to cars in the same price range but again from a performance and price standpoint there is no direct competitor. The lines of how cars are classified is starting to become blurred IMO.
12-03-08, 07:18 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds more like personal preference IMO. I don't see why one won't look at a CTSv if they were shopping for M5's. People cross shop all types of cars.
So your saying that magazines (because more than one mag has compared the Caddy to the M5) should disregard what Caddy's benchmark was and compare it to cars in its same price class? IMO if a company said they built a performance car that competes with vehicles in a higher price category then let them prove it. Do you also think the numerous GTR vs. 911 vs. Lambo comparisons are weird too? Cause based on price they aren't in the same class either.
I'm sure there will be tests comparing it to cars in the same price range but again from a performance and price standpoint there is no direct competitor. The lines of how cars are classified is starting to become blurred IMO.
So your saying that magazines (because more than one mag has compared the Caddy to the M5) should disregard what Caddy's benchmark was and compare it to cars in its same price class? IMO if a company said they built a performance car that competes with vehicles in a higher price category then let them prove it. Do you also think the numerous GTR vs. 911 vs. Lambo comparisons are weird too? Cause based on price they aren't in the same class either.
I'm sure there will be tests comparing it to cars in the same price range but again from a performance and price standpoint there is no direct competitor. The lines of how cars are classified is starting to become blurred IMO.
Yes, I do also think GT-R vs Lambo comparisons are weird, because I HIGHLY doubt the two will be cross-shopped. GT-R comparisons should involve the Corvette and the maybe 911, that's about it. Why? That is because those are the cars most likely to be cross-shopped with the GT-R. Class does not ALWAYS mean equal prices. Just because the C63 and CTS-V have similar prices does NOT mean they are in the same class. Being in the same class is being in the same class. Technically, the 911 Turbo is not the same class as the GT-R based on price, but they ARE in the same class based on specs.
You can argue that the CTS-V and M5 are in the same class, I will give you that, but the C63 does NOT belong in this comparison.
Yes, what I'm saying is that magazines should NOT do a comparison just because a company said so
. Using that logic, should magazines start comparing the Hyundai Azera to the Lexus LS just because Hyundai said so? Should the CTS-V be compared to the Porsche Panamera when it comes out just because Caddy claims the CTS-V is the fastest sedan on the planet?
12-03-08, 05:15 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: el clinico magnifico
Posts: 3,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm surprised the Caddy was somewhat "slow" compared to the C63 which is 400 lbs lighter and has almost 100 fewer horsepower. I was expecting the Caddy to be at least 4/10s faster 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile.
That Caddy is a great deal, anyone looking at an E63 or M5 should seriously consider it. I'm sure people looking into the C63 and M3 would look at it too based on the performance and extra room you get for a similar price, though you would lose the tossability of the M3.
That Caddy is a great deal, anyone looking at an E63 or M5 should seriously consider it. I'm sure people looking into the C63 and M3 would look at it too based on the performance and extra room you get for a similar price, though you would lose the tossability of the M3.
12-03-08, 09:08 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
I can see why they did the comparo this way. C63 is part of a class that lines up more closely with the CTS-V in terms of price, and M5 is a car that lines up more closely with the CTS-V in terms of the overall packaging, sans price.
Try going to a road course or 1/4-mile track and belittling your opponent for having 10% more horsepower than you in a completely different vehicle than yours and yet barely beating you... you'll get some really funny looks from most people.
That might be a 'dig' that checks out with somebody with almost no understanding of how cars and car testing works, but otherwise... huh?
There's so so so much more to the equation than that.
That might be a 'dig' that checks out with somebody with almost no understanding of how cars and car testing works, but otherwise... huh?
There's so so so much more to the equation than that.
12-04-08, 05:17 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
I would get the IS-F before the M3 sedan. The CTS-V trumps both. I cannot believe how well they focused on this car. They need to put this effort not just in the CTS and Vette and Malibu but EVERYTHING
12-04-08, 06:25 AM
#26
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
Yes, what I'm saying is that magazines should NOT do a comparison just because a company said so . Using that logic, should magazines start comparing the Hyundai Azera to the Lexus LS just because Hyundai said so?
. Using that logic, should magazines start comparing the Hyundai Azera to the Lexus LS just because Hyundai said so?
Anyway, you think the review was stupid. I found value in it and understand why they did it this way even if most dont agree with it, but it shows the CTSv offers a lot for the money. I'll just leave it at that.
Last edited by GFerg; 12-04-08 at 06:29 AM.
12-04-08, 06:29 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PS - I'm still laughing at the completely different vehicle comment. Can I ask what just a different vehicle would be? Or does it have to be completely different?
12-04-08, 08:01 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
PS - I'm still laughing at the completely different vehicle comment. Can I ask what just a different vehicle would be? Or does it have to be completely different?
"Different" would be, say, a CTS-V with automatic vs manual or 335i with a juice box vs one without. It is there where the race track guys might not laugh at you if you had the same model as the guy but yours was stock and yet he couldn't leave you behind by more than a second in lap times. Completely different would mean not a single variable is the same between the two cars so comparing one single stat and then using it as the basis for your criticism of the car is like doing a scientific experiment with 100 variables and basing your findings on just a couple of them.
12-04-08, 10:22 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They shouldn't compare based on price. Because if that's the case, then they would have thrown in a Cayman S in the comparison right? And if price is the determining factor, how would you compare the Corvette to anything?
The comparison should have been M5 vs. CTS-V vs. E63. Straight up. Edmunds probably couldn't secure a E63 for the test so they used a C63.. who knows. But this is weird.
The comparison should have been M5 vs. CTS-V vs. E63. Straight up. Edmunds probably couldn't secure a E63 for the test so they used a C63.. who knows. But this is weird.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
