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1SICKREPORT : Why the American Auto industry will fall

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Old 12-09-08, 07:43 PM
  #61  
tex2670
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Originally Posted by rdgdawg
I do agree on the warranty issue, in fact, one of the first points I brought when discussing the auto issue amoung friends and family. People are already NOT buying these autos... Chapter 11 will help restructure debt loads AND abolish the union deals. I believe K-Mart came out of Chapter 11 and bought Target only two years later.
Again, IMO a proper message (hey, the automakers are the kings of media/advertising) on how warranties will be honored going forward AND recommittment to building QUALITY autos is key.

What about all the folks who bought US cars in the last 18 months or so... bet they're sweating about the same thing!

The American public is quick to see the mighty fall, and quick to root for the underdog... just ask Lee Iacocca...
No sir. K-Mart came out of bankruptcy, got acquired by Sears, and now has 2x as many piece of shiite stores, and will probably go under again. "Messages" on honoring warranties do nothing when the restructuring fails, and the company goes into Chapter 7 and liquidates.
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Old 12-09-08, 07:50 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by gshb
the rear view mirror on my IS is pretty darn cheap. actually its the worst one i have ever had because i could never see anything in it because it vibrates so much while moving. but i think its actually because of suppliers. suppliers make these components for as cheap as possible while maintaining some sort of standard set by their customers.
Nit pick all you want, but US automakers have had ample time to disect and figure out how Toyota and Honda make top notch cars (regardless of whether they have slipped lately), and failed miserably in doing so. It is not about rear view mirrors.
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Old 12-09-08, 08:03 PM
  #63  
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I've worked on both sides. I've been a Union Representative and eventually moved into management (not auto related). My take on things.
Union
-You had the Union leaders who abides by the rules and wanted to work with the company.
-You had the VERY vocal Union leaders who HATED the company for whatever reason and looked for ANY reason to make a damn mess of things. These people were usually more influential.
MGT
-You had management that followed the Union rules and rules in general b/c they were just good managers.
-You had managers SCARED to manage b/c of the Union
-You had managers who would purposely seem to **** the Union off and would usually lose the battle.
Workers
-You had workers who saw NO USE for the union and were good workers.
-You had workers who donated to the Union but were mostly inactive
-You had a few workers who ran to the union for everything and depended

Overall IMO and working on both sides, I saw the Union hurting the company with productivity and financially. There were some cases where the company was wrong or maybe didn't follow exact rules but I can say it was RARE to see someone who the company tried to terminate wrongly.

The cases I HATED was where someone CLEARLY was a **** poor worker and/or was always below average and needed to be let go but b/c a rule was followed or a "T" was not crossed, they KEPT THEIR JOB. It was ridiculous (and one of the reasons I document every damn thing to this day lol).

To ME it wasn't about a Union/Non Union. It was about managers and non managers that wanted to work and perform. B/c BOTH SIDES had them and they suck ALL COMPANIES dry.

I think its CLEAR that the import companies recognize this and simply HIRE better people and have better systems in place to keep people motivated and reward good workers.

It starts WITH THE TOP DOWN. Not sure why GM/Ford/Chrysler wants to make it seem its supposed to start the other way around. **** poor management will just waste a company away AND a **** poor union that tries to keep sorry *** people employed also wates the company away.

Both sides are to blame.
 
Old 12-09-08, 08:07 PM
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Old 12-10-08, 05:51 AM
  #65  
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^^ Well said. The UAW hurts GM/Ford/Chrysler more than most people think. Still, it all ends with the CEO. It's the CEO's job to negotiate with the unions and their contracts and it's the CEO that let it get way out of control. True, it seems the UAW has the CEO by the *****, but, in the end, strike or no strike, the UAW needs to be put in their place and it's the CEO's job to do that. Like you said, it starts from the top, down.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:12 AM
  #66  
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This article started to make me feel bad, until I got near the end (to the highlighted part):

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...ckle_down.html

Bucks car dealer closes in on painful choice
By Diane Mastrull

Inquirer Staff Writer

In a remarkable show of staying power, Weed Chevrolet has survived the Great Depression, a temporary shutdown during World War II when car assembly lines were being used to make tanks and other military vehicles, and the tricky interpersonal dynamics endemic of family-run businesses.
But Weed's endurance, it appears, is no match for this economic siege.

The sale of new and used automobiles has trickled to as few as 10 a month. General Motors Corp., Weed's supplier, is in its own battle to survive. Painfully tight credit is making it hard to keep the showroom stocked and for buyers to buy.

Thus, the Bristol Township dealership established in 1926 is closing in on an alternative its owners never thought they would confront: shutting down.

Agreements have been reached to sell the franchise and its eight-acre property to separate buyers. Because those deals are awaiting final approval in an unpredictable economic climate, Weed's manager, who is also one of three cousins who own the struggling dealership, is not ready to speak in terms of a closing date.

What Bruce Weed is conceding is that "it will be difficult to continue operation into the spring under current conditions."

He has been laying off employees since September, paring a workforce that was once a robust 70 in the late 1980s to just 20.

"There's a feeling in your stomach when you're laying off people that have worked for you for 30 years," said Weed, during a two-hour interview earlier this week that brought the 51-year-old Washington Crossing resident to tears. "It's awful."

Said Scott Weed, another of the owners: "It's like having your dog die every day."

Framed pictures of founders Ellis Vaughan Weed Sr. - known as "Unk" - and his brother Henry, were on the floor behind a cabinet in Bruce Weed's office, a decorating oversight, perhaps, but one that seemed fitting. Their grandsons are having a tough-enough time with the decision to likely shutter the business without having to stare each day into the faces of the two men who started it all.

Weed Chevrolet spent its early years in Bristol Borough's 1.9 square miles, at a time when America's small towns were thriving. New cars would arrive by train on tracks that cut through the borough. Weed mechanics would first take them out of crates, then complete their assembly by putting on the wheels and tires.

Bristol's residents rewarded the Weeds by being loyal to the local business.

"Back then," said Bruce Weed, "you sold to your community."

As small towns started to empty out, their residents lured to the bigger homes and lawns of the emerging suburbs, Weed Chevrolet followed the trend. It moved in 1966 to a new showroom the Weed brothers had built on a 4.2-acre chicken farm along what is now one of Lower Bucks County's busiest commercial corridors - Route 413. That facility remains Weed's home today.

Throughout the years and the changes, there was at least one constant at the dealership - a Weed family tie. Given that Henry Weed had no children and died in the 1960s, it was "Unk" who left the biggest genetic impression on the business. He had three sons - Vaughan, Frank (Bruce's father) and Henry (Scott's father).

Over time, the pull of the family business would entice three generations of Weeds.

Ellis Vaughan Weed Jr., now 84, was 22 when he got out of the service in 1946 and "sort of naturally" went into the car business.

Initially, "it was a challenge," he said. As factories transitioned from wartime manufacturing back to standard automobiles, "you couldn't get cars" for a while.

So Vaughan Weed started his career in the parts department. He moved into car sales in 1955. Foreign competition was not yet a threat. General Motors, he said, had 50 percent of the market share. Life as a salesman over the next few decades was grand. Corporate-sponsored sales contests enabled Vaughan and his wife, Ruth, to visit Australia, Ireland, Switzerland and Italy.

By the 1980s, "Unk" had passed away, but another generation of Weeds was a presence in the showroom. David Weed, Vaughan's son, came first, followed by Bruce and later Scott.

With a bachelor's degree in business administration from Gettysburg College and a master's degree in finance from Pennsylvania State University, Bruce flirted with the idea of a job in financial services, possibly on Wall Street. He would instead choose Route 413. His father had been the last of his siblings to join the dealership business, having spent years prior as an insurance broker.

"I had to come in and establish my family's position" in the Weed family's dealership interest, Bruce said. He would assume his father's piece of the ownership, partnering with his uncles for more than 20 years before they turned over their shares to his cousins.

"It was a fun business for a long time," Bruce said, especially the last day of the month.

"Back in the old days, the last day of the month, you'd sell 20 cars, and the top salesman would buy beers for everyone," Bruce recalled. "The last day of the month isn't anything anymore."

Scott, now 46, first started selling cars the summer between his junior and senior years at Millersville University, where he majored in management and finance. He would put the degree to use, becoming the dealership's finance manager in 1989. Among the perks: He hosted his daughter's Sweet Sixteen party in the showroom, an extravaganza that still makes him smile thinking about it two years later.

Cousin David, Vaughan's son, would oversee used-car sales.

By October of this year, the three had come to the unanimous decision it would be difficult to sustain the business. That was when GM's financing arm, GMAC Financial Services, sent a letter to dealers announcing it was tightening its policies. GMAC, the primary source to which GM dealers steer customers for loans, was restricting financing to buyers with a credit score of 700 or above - the upper echelon - and requiring bigger down payments.

Just as punishing to the dealers, if not more so, was GMAC's new policies on providing financing to dealers to enable them to buy cars to put in their showrooms and on their sales lots - known in the industry as floor planning. While once willing to finance as much as 95 percent of a dealer's inventory, GMAC was cutting back to about 70 percent, Bruce said. It also was requiring faster payoff of its dealer loans.

The Weed cousins first took out personal loans to meet GMAC's tougher financing demands. There wasn't enough capital on hand, Bruce said, because it had been their business strategy to buy property as it came available around the dealership to establish a bigger presence. At eight acres, the Weed Chevrolet property is now twice its original size.

The agonies of the domestic automakers are pressuring many dealerships. Historically, about 20 dealerships have been lost each year in Pennsylvania. This year, that number is likely to be three times that. The national picture is equally grim.

Vaughan Weed has anger about this ending. He blames the U.S. government for allowing foreign automakers "to come in and decimate" the domestic auto industry.

But regarding their decision to sell the franchise, Vaughan Weed said he has only support for his son and nephews.

"I would have probably made the same decision under the circumstances," he said. "All things have to come to an end. You just have to accept it."

Some remaining employees declined to be interviewed, saying they were so angry about GM and GMAC, they feared what they might say and the trouble that might cause.

Ken Keiffer was willing to talk. He can't say enough about a family that gave him work when he needed something to keep him busy after he retired as a mechanic 13 years ago and his wife died five years ago. As a "lot man," his job was to move cars around the dealership. When the layoffs started earlier this fall, the 75-year-old widower insisted the Weeds stop paying him.

But he continues to show up every day, not so much to move displays, but "because I like the people," he said. "I just can't see why the government doesn't bail these people out."
Can someone whose family has been in the car biz for 80 years really be that smug to believe that this is all the U.S. government's fault for not protecting the Big 3 against cheaper, better quality, more fuel efficient, more consumer responsive imports?

I'm not routing for the Big 3 to fail, but if this is their attitude, then a failure is coming.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:18 AM
  #67  
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All three companies will survive.. If any of the 3 automakers go down, it will have ripple effect resulting in more job loss outside of the auto industry.. These automakers get the materials & electronics from suppliers right here in the USA. The Banking industry will suffer as there will not be many auto loans from their bread & butter car makers.. The companies need help but I am not in agreement with throwing money at the problem.. These automakers need a major re-focusing on producing some cars. Bring some of those succesful fuel efficient models from Europe GM, FORD, Chrysler.. The Opel Insignia is a beautiful car imo.. Get that car over here along with others.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:18 AM
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Here is similar article to the one above I posted in the other thread......

Angry Ford dealer in SC blasts imports in ads

SAVANNAH, Ga. – A Ford dealer angered over the proposed bailout of U.S. automakers blames the nation's sour economy on Congress and criticized buyers of Japanese cars, calling the vehicles "rice ready ... not road ready" in a radio ad.

O.C. Welch, who owns a dealership near Savannah in Hardeeville, S.C., began airing the minute-long ad on a dozen stations in the area over the weekend. The ad sounds more like a talk-radio tirade than a sales pitch.

"All you people that buy all your Toyotas and send that money to Japan, you know, when you don't have a job to make your Toyota car payment, don't come crying to me," Welch says in the ad. "All those cars are rice ready. They're not road ready."

Floyd Mori, executive director of the Japanese American Citizens League, said Welch's remarks evoke anti-Asian sentiments often aimed at Japanese and Chinese immigrants to the U.S. from the 1930s through World War II. He also noted many Japanese automakers' cars are manufactured in America.

"It's a blatant, ignorant, racist remark from somebody who should know better," Mori said.

Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis said the company's cars consistently receive high marks for quality. The automaker employs 36,600 Americans, he said, and about 60 percent of Toyota vehicles sold in the U.S. were manufactured here.

"How do you tell a worker in Kentucky who's producing a Toyota that his job is worth less than another American autoworker's?" Dominicis said.

The car dealer, though, said Tuesday he had received more positive calls than negative ones. His dealership sold 15 new cars Saturday — half of them to people drawn to the lot by the ad, he said.

Welch said he's mostly mad at politicians, blasting them in his ad as only being good for "slinging mud and spending our tax dollars." He said the government should offer tax incentives for consumers to buy new cars rather than spend money bailing out Ford, General Motors and Chrysler.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/.../angry_auto_ad
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Old 12-10-08, 06:43 AM
  #69  
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"All you people that buy all your Toyotas and send that money to Japan, you know, when you don't have a job to make your Toyota car payment, don't come crying to me," Welch says in the ad. "All those cars are rice ready. They're not road ready."
Sheer ignorance. Someone in this buisness should know better. Many Toyotas are built here in the U.S., and some of the money goes into the pockets of American workers.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:46 AM
  #70  
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"All you people that buy all your Toyotas and send that money to Japan, you know, when you don't have a job to make your Toyota car payment, don't come crying to me," Welch says in the ad. "All those cars are rice ready. They're not road ready."
Wooh..He would be banned here for such commentary.. For a minute, I thought that he was a member of CL lol..
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Old 12-10-08, 01:01 PM
  #71  
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Great new bailout ad I found on digg. LOL
Attached Thumbnails 1SICKREPORT : Why the American Auto industry will fall-20081209-the-bailout-shitty-cars.jpg  
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Old 12-10-08, 01:12 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by drink300
Great new bailout ad I found on digg. LOL
Again, like in my previous post, this is sheer ignorance (not you, drink ....the ad.
That ad takes a cut, especially, at Subaru owners. Well, guess what? Outbacks are built in Lafayette, IN......with AMERICAN labor. And guess what?......Yes, I bought one.
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Old 12-10-08, 02:59 PM
  #73  
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Love the people who are using this situation as a union busting opportunity.
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Old 12-10-08, 05:46 PM
  #74  
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I do not want the Big 3 to fail, and i hope they dont. That being said, failure is almost a predetermined destiny for them.
Pardon my random thoughts, but here we go. My family has been in the car business since 1962. In those early years, the cars were decent cars. fit and finish was pretty good, and for the time i think it was extremely good. Move forward to the late 60's. In my opinion, the new designs of the late 60's early 70's did not pay as much attention to detail. Compare gaps on a 1966 or 67 chevelle, cutlass, gto to the new models of 1968. They were not as good with the next generation. They should have been at least as good if not better. Move to the early 70's. They lost all of their HP with new emissions standards. That horsepower did not even begin to come back until 15 years later. Take the bad bumper designs of the camaro for example. they took a nice looking car from 1970 and made it look like crap in 1974. All of these things show they just did not care in my opinion. In 1975 they needed to go to HEI ignition and unleaded fuel. I remember numerous brand new cars and i mean less than 1000 miles, and in our next door neighbors case, less than 20 miles where the cars stranded the people. In his case, a brand new 1977 Caddy. drives it for 6 miles and it shoots craps on him. This was a man that 10 minutes earlier, felt like he finally arrived and was someone in his first new Caddy. What a sour taste Caddilac left him. My father was selling Pontiacs in the late 60's and early 70's and had to put a pan under everyone of them because the rear main seal leaked on the showroom floor. They never corrected it. These people took their new Pontiacs home and saw oil stains on their driveways and garage floors. One may think if i was just a kid and knew this, Pontiac certainly knew it, but did nothing to correct it. How about the exploding PINTO. Ford knew of the problem and there was an insignificant amount of money required to put a shield between the differential and the fuel tank, but they chose to let 27 people burn to death. Now they are in line asking for a handout. Had they done it right, you know Quality is Job ONE, maybe people would not have that horrible memory. My friend was 18 and bought a brand new chevrolet pickup in 1980. Underpowered of course, but worse, it had rust on the rocker panels, inside the doors, and here and there. What a bad way to start off a customer relationship. Surprisingly, he has bought more GM and i dont know why, except he is union. In 1981 i purchased a brand new Cutlass. I could not afford the vV8, so i got the POS v6. It was such a horrible engine, that later they called it the even firing v6. For over drive in the car they had a lockup torque converter. It never knew whether it should be in D or OD. Because of that, it shook you all the way, constantly changing from D to it's 1to 1 lockup ratio. Many problems with that car and i babied it, did not drive it in bad weather etc. Just a real POS. Same era, they took an olds 350 and quickly made it into a diesel. What a pile of crap that was. Cadillac then chose to make the 8-6-4 engine. Nice. Cadillac came out with the Cimarron because they needed to meet the fuel consumption requirements. If they had ANY pride, they would not have put their name on a cavalier and thrown in a leather interior. How shameful. Those cars would immediately flood out in cold weather starting. Try to do a comparison of a mid 80's Fiero to an MR2. enough said i think. I started selling Toyota in 1984. I noticed many a school teacher trade in their Chrysler K car for Toyota Corollas. It seemed they were all driving K cars from 1979-1982 and became Corolla buyers and never looked back. How about Ford, they rode the same Mustang forever, not really improving it. Now, they did something to make a statement. Remember the high powered corvette in the mid 70's through 1982. Chevrolet should have been embarassed, and should still be. I got out of the car business in the 80's and have since given GM a try with the purchase of a Riviera in 89 and it turned out to be a good car. Problem is i bought another in 92 and it was garbage. With those exceptions, every new car i have purchased since has been Toyota or Lexus. That will not change. I truly believe that the automakers were laughing while taking advantage of the consumer all the way from the late 60's until about 10 years ago when they realized the horse was out of the barn. They did nothing to develop the 8-6-4 concept, which could have been perfected over thes last 25 years, similar to the evolution of the 3.8 liter v6 which was garbage, but now is good. Back in the day, you could have a car with 12200 miles on it and they were glad to say it is out of warranty instead of helping you. They simply laughed it off. In the 60's, my father would take door panels off of cars he sold brand new and fix the rattles for his customers because the shop did not get them fixed in time. He would find the cause of the rattle to be pop cans etc. This is the fault of the worker. It is also the fault of management for allowing it and not monitoring these types of behavior. I do not blame the factory worker for installing a bad part on the car as it was supplied by the manufacturer, but if the part was put on incorrectly, or with little care, it is the workers fault. I remember in the late 70's cars would come in and one side would show LeSabre and the other Delta 88, what kind of crap is that? I can go on and on, i hope they dont fail, but if they do, they asked for it.
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Old 12-10-08, 05:50 PM
  #75  
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a friend of mine is in F&I at a GM store. He told me GMAC financing is 11.99% for the lucky few that are at the VERY top credit wise, and their lease rate for the best buyer is 24.00%. Seems to me they do not want to sell cars and would rather get bailed out by the govt.
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