Honda Rethinks Diesels for the U.S.
12-08-08, 07:50 PM
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Honda Rethinks Diesels for the U.S.
Honda Motor is reconsidering its decision to launch diesel-power vehicles next year in the U.S., where diesel fuel has become much more expensive than gasoline.
"Right now we are re-evaluating, due to trends in gasoline and diesel prices, and the price of raw materials we use in the exhaust clean-up system," according to Honda spokesman David Iida.
Honda's move appears to be solo. But Honda's considered a savvy player in the U.S. market, so others might be tempted to rethink U.S. diesels.
Honda has been promising a four-cylinder diesel next year in a sedan from its Acura luxury brand. After that, it said it would sell larger models, probably SUVs and vans, with V-6 diesels.
Diesel cars typically retail for at least $1,500 more than similar gasoline models, but they get 20% to 40% better mileage.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: SUVs | Honda | Oil Price Information Service | Mercedes-Benz | Jeep | Acura | Fred Rozell | Maxima | David Iida | VW Jetta TDI
The average price of diesel fuel, though, is running 40% to 50% more than average gasoline prices, according to data from the Oil Price Information Service. That wipes out cost savings from the diesel's improved mileage.
Iida says Honda will decide "sooner rather than later" on going ahead with U.S. diesels, but wouldn't pin down a date.
Rival Nissan says it still plans to sell a V-6 diesel in the premium Maxima sedan in the U.S. in 2010. But spokesman Scott Vazin says the price premium for diesel fuel is worrisome. "It's why we're putting it on our flagship. We don't know where (fuel prices) will be when we launch, but we expect some pent-up demand. And our perception of the diesel buyer is someone who keeps the car longer," minimizing the drawback of its higher price.
Volkswagen, Jeep, Mercedes-Benz and BMW are selling U.S. diesels. Audi plans a diesel SUV in April. The VW Jetta TDI diesel, about $23,000, is the lowest-priced diesel in the U.S.
Worldwide demand is greater for diesel than for gasoline, keeping the price up even as gasoline has tumbled to less than half its $4.11 peak in July, notes Fred Rozell, price expert at OPIS.
The gap between gasoline and diesel "is higher than it has ever been, and typically those relationships eventually fall back to the norm," Rozell says. "I think the economic slump globally will bring diesel down."
"Right now we are re-evaluating, due to trends in gasoline and diesel prices, and the price of raw materials we use in the exhaust clean-up system," according to Honda spokesman David Iida.
Honda's move appears to be solo. But Honda's considered a savvy player in the U.S. market, so others might be tempted to rethink U.S. diesels.
Honda has been promising a four-cylinder diesel next year in a sedan from its Acura luxury brand. After that, it said it would sell larger models, probably SUVs and vans, with V-6 diesels.
Diesel cars typically retail for at least $1,500 more than similar gasoline models, but they get 20% to 40% better mileage.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: SUVs | Honda | Oil Price Information Service | Mercedes-Benz | Jeep | Acura | Fred Rozell | Maxima | David Iida | VW Jetta TDI
The average price of diesel fuel, though, is running 40% to 50% more than average gasoline prices, according to data from the Oil Price Information Service. That wipes out cost savings from the diesel's improved mileage.
Iida says Honda will decide "sooner rather than later" on going ahead with U.S. diesels, but wouldn't pin down a date.
Rival Nissan says it still plans to sell a V-6 diesel in the premium Maxima sedan in the U.S. in 2010. But spokesman Scott Vazin says the price premium for diesel fuel is worrisome. "It's why we're putting it on our flagship. We don't know where (fuel prices) will be when we launch, but we expect some pent-up demand. And our perception of the diesel buyer is someone who keeps the car longer," minimizing the drawback of its higher price.
Volkswagen, Jeep, Mercedes-Benz and BMW are selling U.S. diesels. Audi plans a diesel SUV in April. The VW Jetta TDI diesel, about $23,000, is the lowest-priced diesel in the U.S.
Worldwide demand is greater for diesel than for gasoline, keeping the price up even as gasoline has tumbled to less than half its $4.11 peak in July, notes Fred Rozell, price expert at OPIS.
The gap between gasoline and diesel "is higher than it has ever been, and typically those relationships eventually fall back to the norm," Rozell says. "I think the economic slump globally will bring diesel down."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...a-diesel_N.htm
12-08-08, 07:54 PM
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Diesel is is a solid $1 more a gallon than regular. Diesel still only has a few die hard buyers here. I never understood how giving "acura" a diesel makes it progressive in America, not when the competition has much more complex hybrids.
I do still however applaud adding diesel entries here. I wish I had diesel sales figures to trend.
I do still however applaud adding diesel entries here. I wish I had diesel sales figures to trend.
12-08-08, 08:04 PM
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It seems to me Honda has become an indecisive company lately, or put it in a more gentle way, it has become excessively prudent. They have to wait until the other companies' products results before deciding to make one of their own or not. Prius has become successful, now they make an insight that is almost a copy. Toyota's RAV4 had become a hit before they made their own CR-V. Now GT-R is getting so much attention then they need to make a second generation NSX. If BMW's 335d sells like hot cake they would bring in their diesel TSX, right? Making V8 or no V8? RWD or no RWD for Acura? Make up your mind. Where is the passion that Honda used to have in the 80s and 90s? Bring us the diesel car, hybrid car, true luxury sedan, super car, sports car, not just SUV and wagon and mini-mini-van.
12-08-08, 11:44 PM
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I don't understand why people/companies think the sudden drop in gas prices is going to last. This is a temporary adjustment. Even if diesel prices are currently 100% more expensive, if you're getting 40% better mileage, that cuts a huge bite out of the current price difference. Once gas prices jump back to parity with diesel, you'll be saving 40% of the price of gas (assuming 40% better mileage).
I'd like to see some diesel Hondas - i've driven a couple VWs, they have obsene amounts of getup.
I'd like to see some diesel Hondas - i've driven a couple VWs, they have obsene amounts of getup.
12-08-08, 11:56 PM
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this is the way honda operates. they dont make a move until the obvious choice is left. they dont take risks and have benefited from that so far. but as a result, they wont be able to get out of their position. acura will always be a second rate luxury brand. and honda will always be overshadowed by toyota.
i think people here understand, especially 1sick, that all honda does is talk talk talk. they never do and when they do its always late and quiet.
i think people here understand, especially 1sick, that all honda does is talk talk talk. they never do and when they do its always late and quiet.
12-09-08, 12:37 AM
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diesel's sell well. before getting my ML500 i was looking at the cdi model's. no joke the cdi's were way more than my ML500. they litterly can out sell hot cakes. Mercede's has this thing that you cant export new diesel's for 2 years i have had buddies that tried and when they arrive at port they are charged extra fee's
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12-09-08, 08:35 AM
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This is a logical choice. You could pair a small, 70 HP diesel engine with a 60 HP electric motor and have a decent running vehicle that gets 80 MPG. However, few automakers are pursuing this because instead of $2-3K premium it would be more like $5k. This would pay for itself, but still the sticker shock would scare customers, especially with the cost of diesel.
12-09-08, 01:51 PM
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I read somewhere in a news article that Honda Motor Co. are run by engineers, not by business men. So..."the good thing, they're engineer, but the bad, they're engineer".
That might explain why they make good products, but not so-good business decision, in term of leading the trend.
That might explain why they make good products, but not so-good business decision, in term of leading the trend.
12-09-08, 05:17 PM
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Gas isn't going to stay at these prices. Great time for a whopper temporary gas tax but that won't happen.
I have been a big proponent of the high tech diesels and while we aren't anywhere near a $1 a gallon premium for diesel in Cali, we are anywhere from 8 to around 20% higher than premium. At that price point, the extra dollars make the purchase decisions far less than a slam dunk. The high tech diesels have very respectable performance but the only ones we are getting here, at least from the europeans, are the biggest ones. When I read the euro car mags and see this or that bimmer or audi getting 40mpg+, even when correcting for imperial gallons, I get very interested. But we aren't getting those here. The ones that are getting here aren't generating enough mileage increase relative to purchase price and diesel ongoing price IMO. Diesels biggest opportunity may lie in commercial vehicles like pickups. But even there I am not sure anymore.
Diesel hybrid? Why not? Or why? Depending on your point of view. And with the trend being electrics with an on board internal combustion just to charge the batteries, the argument for diesel might not be that persuasive.
I have been a big proponent of the high tech diesels and while we aren't anywhere near a $1 a gallon premium for diesel in Cali, we are anywhere from 8 to around 20% higher than premium. At that price point, the extra dollars make the purchase decisions far less than a slam dunk. The high tech diesels have very respectable performance but the only ones we are getting here, at least from the europeans, are the biggest ones. When I read the euro car mags and see this or that bimmer or audi getting 40mpg+, even when correcting for imperial gallons, I get very interested. But we aren't getting those here. The ones that are getting here aren't generating enough mileage increase relative to purchase price and diesel ongoing price IMO. Diesels biggest opportunity may lie in commercial vehicles like pickups. But even there I am not sure anymore.
Diesel hybrid? Why not? Or why? Depending on your point of view. And with the trend being electrics with an on board internal combustion just to charge the batteries, the argument for diesel might not be that persuasive.
12-09-08, 05:24 PM
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I have to admit I agree with the exception of the new 3.7 liter motor in the TL. Read the specs and design details and you will find that this motor is top notch and really built to last. What upsets me about honda / acura in terms of the motors of the past is their lack of torque. Lots of fun because you are red lining at 8-9000 rpm, but I dont want to have to beat the car to produce some pull.
12-09-08, 05:48 PM
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I read somewhere in a news article that Honda Motor Co. are run by engineers, not by business men. So..."the good thing, they're engineer, but the bad, they're engineer".
That might explain why they make good products, but not so-good business decision, in term of leading the trend.
That might explain why they make good products, but not so-good business decision, in term of leading the trend.
Sad they are thinking of cancelling the Diesel. Those Jettas are on waiting lists at many dealers nationwide.
12-09-08, 05:56 PM
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Honda has rarely innovated much of "anything" in the last ten years. They are more keen on letting others introducing technology, making it marketable, then devising their own method of taking it to market, in simpler, dumbed down, and more reliable fashion.
Sad they are thinking of cancelling the Diesel. Those Jettas are on waiting lists at many dealers nationwide.
Sad they are thinking of cancelling the Diesel. Those Jettas are on waiting lists at many dealers nationwide.
I can't think of one thing Honda has innovated outside of SH-AWD (which is a moot point) and the noise canceling system the past 10 years. They are behind on everything but sheep.