Volkswagen's Big Bet on Tennessee
12-10-08 | 04:10 PM
#1
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: CA
Volkswagen's Big Bet on Tennessee
Europe December 10, 2008, 12:31PM EST
Jack Ewing
Despite the industry's travails, the German automaker expects to boost U.S. sales with its $1 billion investment in a Chattanooga factory set to make midsize cars
But VW was also looking at sites in Michigan and in Alabama, where German carmaker Daimler (DAI) already produces Mercedes SUVs and station wagons. As the mayors remember it, a critical point came in May, when Chattanooga hosted VW executives for a presentation at a local hotel. Actually, what the city representatives heard was not encouraging. Volkswagen execs were concerned about the condition of the proposed factory site, which had been abandoned for many years and was overgrown with forest and shrubs. As Ramsey, the county mayor, remembers it, VW execs said, "We like your city, but your site is in third place. We can't see it, we can't get a feel for it."
Crash Site-Clearing
That very afternoon, Ramsey says, local officials began dispatching equipment to the site, which was once home to a dynamite factory. Within three weeks, after an all-out effort involving some 200 earth movers, wood chippers, and other heavy machinery, the Chattanoogans had cleaned up the land. "I think Volkswagen saw that our community wanted this plant and was committed to making things happen," Ramsey says. (Chattanooga's crash brush-clearing effort indeed made a big impression on VW execs, a company spokesman confirms.)
Of course, money also played a role in winning the hearts of VW execs, who announced their choice of Chattanooga last July. Local and state governments committed $577 million in incentives to win the VW plant, including tax breaks, road construction, and training of local workers.
Volkswagen representatives say the global downturn hasn't dampened their ambitions for Chattanooga. VW, which currently has only 2% of the U.S. market, plans to triple sales there to 800,000 vehicles by 2018. To do that, VW needs local manufacturing to protect against currency fluctuations. All of the German carmakers have suffered in recent years from the strength of the euro vs. the dollar, which makes their European-built products more expensive in dollar terms.
More important, having a strong base in the U.S. may help VW better understand American drivers. Volkswagen has lagged in the U.S. in part because products such as the $16,000 Rabbit (sold as the Golf in Europe) don't correspond to U.S. tastes, says analyst Stürmer. The suspension in VWs tends to be stiff for American tastes, and the cars lack popular details such as cup holders for supersize beverages. "They don't have a product portfolio the average American would buy because it's just too European," Stürmer says.
For Volkswagen to get the maximum payoff from Chattanooga, Stürmer says, the company should use it as more than just a production site. "If the location is not just a dumb factory, but more a transplant organization, there is a chance they will be able to develop a staff that has the authority to produce and translate the VW core values into American products fit for the American user," he says.
Leveraging Diesel
VW designers based in Wolfsburg, Germany, and Los Angeles are currently at work on a new model that will be built in Chattanooga and aimed at U.S. drivers. The new car will be slightly larger than VW's $28,000 Passat and begin rolling off the Chattanooga assembly line in early 2011. VW plans to build 150,000 a year, of which 30% will be diesel-powered. VW hopes to leverage its expertise in fuel-efficient diesel engines, which are popular in Europe but have yet to catch on in the U.S.
The Chattanooga mayors allow that they're concerned about the state of the economy, but are confident things will be better by the time VW starts producing cars in their city. "The important thing is for the economy to be in substantial recovery two years from now," Mayor Littlefield says.
But VW was also looking at sites in Michigan and in Alabama, where German carmaker Daimler (DAI) already produces Mercedes SUVs and station wagons. As the mayors remember it, a critical point came in May, when Chattanooga hosted VW executives for a presentation at a local hotel. Actually, what the city representatives heard was not encouraging. Volkswagen execs were concerned about the condition of the proposed factory site, which had been abandoned for many years and was overgrown with forest and shrubs. As Ramsey, the county mayor, remembers it, VW execs said, "We like your city, but your site is in third place. We can't see it, we can't get a feel for it."
Crash Site-Clearing
That very afternoon, Ramsey says, local officials began dispatching equipment to the site, which was once home to a dynamite factory. Within three weeks, after an all-out effort involving some 200 earth movers, wood chippers, and other heavy machinery, the Chattanoogans had cleaned up the land. "I think Volkswagen saw that our community wanted this plant and was committed to making things happen," Ramsey says. (Chattanooga's crash brush-clearing effort indeed made a big impression on VW execs, a company spokesman confirms.)
Of course, money also played a role in winning the hearts of VW execs, who announced their choice of Chattanooga last July. Local and state governments committed $577 million in incentives to win the VW plant, including tax breaks, road construction, and training of local workers.
Volkswagen representatives say the global downturn hasn't dampened their ambitions for Chattanooga. VW, which currently has only 2% of the U.S. market, plans to triple sales there to 800,000 vehicles by 2018. To do that, VW needs local manufacturing to protect against currency fluctuations. All of the German carmakers have suffered in recent years from the strength of the euro vs. the dollar, which makes their European-built products more expensive in dollar terms.
More important, having a strong base in the U.S. may help VW better understand American drivers. Volkswagen has lagged in the U.S. in part because products such as the $16,000 Rabbit (sold as the Golf in Europe) don't correspond to U.S. tastes, says analyst Stürmer. The suspension in VWs tends to be stiff for American tastes, and the cars lack popular details such as cup holders for supersize beverages. "They don't have a product portfolio the average American would buy because it's just too European," Stürmer says.
For Volkswagen to get the maximum payoff from Chattanooga, Stürmer says, the company should use it as more than just a production site. "If the location is not just a dumb factory, but more a transplant organization, there is a chance they will be able to develop a staff that has the authority to produce and translate the VW core values into American products fit for the American user," he says.
Leveraging Diesel
VW designers based in Wolfsburg, Germany, and Los Angeles are currently at work on a new model that will be built in Chattanooga and aimed at U.S. drivers. The new car will be slightly larger than VW's $28,000 Passat and begin rolling off the Chattanooga assembly line in early 2011. VW plans to build 150,000 a year, of which 30% will be diesel-powered. VW hopes to leverage its expertise in fuel-efficient diesel engines, which are popular in Europe but have yet to catch on in the U.S.
The Chattanooga mayors allow that they're concerned about the state of the economy, but are confident things will be better by the time VW starts producing cars in their city. "The important thing is for the economy to be in substantial recovery two years from now," Mayor Littlefield says.
Jack Ewing
Despite the industry's travails, the German automaker expects to boost U.S. sales with its $1 billion investment in a Chattanooga factory set to make midsize cars
But VW was also looking at sites in Michigan and in Alabama, where German carmaker Daimler (DAI) already produces Mercedes SUVs and station wagons. As the mayors remember it, a critical point came in May, when Chattanooga hosted VW executives for a presentation at a local hotel. Actually, what the city representatives heard was not encouraging. Volkswagen execs were concerned about the condition of the proposed factory site, which had been abandoned for many years and was overgrown with forest and shrubs. As Ramsey, the county mayor, remembers it, VW execs said, "We like your city, but your site is in third place. We can't see it, we can't get a feel for it."
Crash Site-Clearing
That very afternoon, Ramsey says, local officials began dispatching equipment to the site, which was once home to a dynamite factory. Within three weeks, after an all-out effort involving some 200 earth movers, wood chippers, and other heavy machinery, the Chattanoogans had cleaned up the land. "I think Volkswagen saw that our community wanted this plant and was committed to making things happen," Ramsey says. (Chattanooga's crash brush-clearing effort indeed made a big impression on VW execs, a company spokesman confirms.)
Of course, money also played a role in winning the hearts of VW execs, who announced their choice of Chattanooga last July. Local and state governments committed $577 million in incentives to win the VW plant, including tax breaks, road construction, and training of local workers.
Volkswagen representatives say the global downturn hasn't dampened their ambitions for Chattanooga. VW, which currently has only 2% of the U.S. market, plans to triple sales there to 800,000 vehicles by 2018. To do that, VW needs local manufacturing to protect against currency fluctuations. All of the German carmakers have suffered in recent years from the strength of the euro vs. the dollar, which makes their European-built products more expensive in dollar terms.
More important, having a strong base in the U.S. may help VW better understand American drivers. Volkswagen has lagged in the U.S. in part because products such as the $16,000 Rabbit (sold as the Golf in Europe) don't correspond to U.S. tastes, says analyst Stürmer. The suspension in VWs tends to be stiff for American tastes, and the cars lack popular details such as cup holders for supersize beverages. "They don't have a product portfolio the average American would buy because it's just too European," Stürmer says.
For Volkswagen to get the maximum payoff from Chattanooga, Stürmer says, the company should use it as more than just a production site. "If the location is not just a dumb factory, but more a transplant organization, there is a chance they will be able to develop a staff that has the authority to produce and translate the VW core values into American products fit for the American user," he says.
Leveraging Diesel
VW designers based in Wolfsburg, Germany, and Los Angeles are currently at work on a new model that will be built in Chattanooga and aimed at U.S. drivers. The new car will be slightly larger than VW's $28,000 Passat and begin rolling off the Chattanooga assembly line in early 2011. VW plans to build 150,000 a year, of which 30% will be diesel-powered. VW hopes to leverage its expertise in fuel-efficient diesel engines, which are popular in Europe but have yet to catch on in the U.S.
The Chattanooga mayors allow that they're concerned about the state of the economy, but are confident things will be better by the time VW starts producing cars in their city. "The important thing is for the economy to be in substantial recovery two years from now," Mayor Littlefield says.
But VW was also looking at sites in Michigan and in Alabama, where German carmaker Daimler (DAI) already produces Mercedes SUVs and station wagons. As the mayors remember it, a critical point came in May, when Chattanooga hosted VW executives for a presentation at a local hotel. Actually, what the city representatives heard was not encouraging. Volkswagen execs were concerned about the condition of the proposed factory site, which had been abandoned for many years and was overgrown with forest and shrubs. As Ramsey, the county mayor, remembers it, VW execs said, "We like your city, but your site is in third place. We can't see it, we can't get a feel for it."
Crash Site-Clearing
That very afternoon, Ramsey says, local officials began dispatching equipment to the site, which was once home to a dynamite factory. Within three weeks, after an all-out effort involving some 200 earth movers, wood chippers, and other heavy machinery, the Chattanoogans had cleaned up the land. "I think Volkswagen saw that our community wanted this plant and was committed to making things happen," Ramsey says. (Chattanooga's crash brush-clearing effort indeed made a big impression on VW execs, a company spokesman confirms.)
Of course, money also played a role in winning the hearts of VW execs, who announced their choice of Chattanooga last July. Local and state governments committed $577 million in incentives to win the VW plant, including tax breaks, road construction, and training of local workers.
Volkswagen representatives say the global downturn hasn't dampened their ambitions for Chattanooga. VW, which currently has only 2% of the U.S. market, plans to triple sales there to 800,000 vehicles by 2018. To do that, VW needs local manufacturing to protect against currency fluctuations. All of the German carmakers have suffered in recent years from the strength of the euro vs. the dollar, which makes their European-built products more expensive in dollar terms.
More important, having a strong base in the U.S. may help VW better understand American drivers. Volkswagen has lagged in the U.S. in part because products such as the $16,000 Rabbit (sold as the Golf in Europe) don't correspond to U.S. tastes, says analyst Stürmer. The suspension in VWs tends to be stiff for American tastes, and the cars lack popular details such as cup holders for supersize beverages. "They don't have a product portfolio the average American would buy because it's just too European," Stürmer says.
For Volkswagen to get the maximum payoff from Chattanooga, Stürmer says, the company should use it as more than just a production site. "If the location is not just a dumb factory, but more a transplant organization, there is a chance they will be able to develop a staff that has the authority to produce and translate the VW core values into American products fit for the American user," he says.
Leveraging Diesel
VW designers based in Wolfsburg, Germany, and Los Angeles are currently at work on a new model that will be built in Chattanooga and aimed at U.S. drivers. The new car will be slightly larger than VW's $28,000 Passat and begin rolling off the Chattanooga assembly line in early 2011. VW plans to build 150,000 a year, of which 30% will be diesel-powered. VW hopes to leverage its expertise in fuel-efficient diesel engines, which are popular in Europe but have yet to catch on in the U.S.
The Chattanooga mayors allow that they're concerned about the state of the economy, but are confident things will be better by the time VW starts producing cars in their city. "The important thing is for the economy to be in substantial recovery two years from now," Mayor Littlefield says.
I have to say, if VW starts "dumbing down" their cars the way the Japanese have with soft suspensions and second rate driving dynamics, VWs core buyers will be sorely dissapointed, who stick with the brand for the very reason that they are "strait from Europe" which ultimately gives them so much "character". The American way = big ugly boats.
The comment about the cupholders gets to me...Is it more important for me to have a supersized cupholder so 300lb obese jane doe can put her slurpee in, or red dot matrix colour trip computer that shows radio stations between the guages more important? Bigger interior for the growing American family (growing from McDonalds) or a car that feels planted at 100mph? It's these tradeoffs that have me shaking my head at the american consumer. They don't appreciate details, they don't appreciate the way the car drives. All they care about is if it lends to their sad "bigger is better" lifestyle.
Last edited by FKL; 12-10-08 at 04:19 PM.
12-10-08 | 05:00 PM
#2
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Posts: n/a
VWs core base is dying. THey sell less cars than Lexus, let alone Toyota here (not even close). They need to fix the looks first. VWs used to look like German cars, not Japanese or Korean cars. They need to fix quality, which still is awful. They need to fix dealers, who act as if they are selling millions of cars.
They need to fix allocation. They keep sending VW dealers here cars we don't want. The VWs people want are damn near ignored.
There is NOTHING wrong with softer suspensions etc. Its clear there is room and a market for both. The market in America is DIFFERENT than Europe. If they want to suceed here, they will have to adjust.
Similar to how Leuxs in Europe need diesels and stiffer suspensions to sell better.
AS for ugly boats, look no further than the Passat. Its not ugly but its not beautiful. It also ain't no sports sedan.
I could fix VWs sales here with one car. The beetle. Discontent the damn thing and stop moving it upscale. They would continue to sell hundreds of thousands of them. No one wants a damn 25k beetle.
They need to fix allocation. They keep sending VW dealers here cars we don't want. The VWs people want are damn near ignored.
There is NOTHING wrong with softer suspensions etc. Its clear there is room and a market for both. The market in America is DIFFERENT than Europe. If they want to suceed here, they will have to adjust.
Similar to how Leuxs in Europe need diesels and stiffer suspensions to sell better.
AS for ugly boats, look no further than the Passat. Its not ugly but its not beautiful. It also ain't no sports sedan.
I could fix VWs sales here with one car. The beetle. Discontent the damn thing and stop moving it upscale. They would continue to sell hundreds of thousands of them. No one wants a damn 25k beetle.
12-10-08 | 05:16 PM
#3
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,250
Likes: 169
From: Miami, Florida
I am getting sick and tired of their car ads with the old little beetle. They were cute at first, but every time he says, "it's what the people want", I have to puke.
I remember VWs quite well in Mexico (they had all the Euro models and then some) and their market was clearly getting eaten by the likes of Chevy and Nissan in the small car department. The love for VW was going down hill during my 6 years there. Moving up the ladder, stuff like the Jetta was getting eaten by Honda and to an extent Nissan. In addition, they have had some labor disputes at their Mexican factory outside of Puebla over the years that cause them some issues, potentially another reason for a move to the U.S.
Quite true, no one wants a 25K beetle, keep it in the 10Ks at most.
I remember VWs quite well in Mexico (they had all the Euro models and then some) and their market was clearly getting eaten by the likes of Chevy and Nissan in the small car department. The love for VW was going down hill during my 6 years there. Moving up the ladder, stuff like the Jetta was getting eaten by Honda and to an extent Nissan. In addition, they have had some labor disputes at their Mexican factory outside of Puebla over the years that cause them some issues, potentially another reason for a move to the U.S.
Quite true, no one wants a 25K beetle, keep it in the 10Ks at most.
12-10-08 | 05:20 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
From: CA
VWs core base is dying. THey sell less cars than Lexus, let alone Toyota here (not even close). They need to fix the looks first. VWs used to look like German cars, not Japanese or Korean cars. They need to fix quality, which still is awful. They need to fix dealers, who act as if they are selling millions of cars.
They need to fix allocation. They keep sending VW dealers here cars we don't want. The VWs people want are damn near ignored.
There is NOTHING wrong with softer suspensions etc. Its clear there is room and a market for both. The market in America is DIFFERENT than Europe. If they want to suceed here, they will have to adjust.
Similar to how Leuxs in Europe need diesels and stiffer suspensions to sell better.
AS for ugly boats, look no further than the Passat. Its not ugly but its not beautiful. It also ain't no sports sedan.
I could fix VWs sales here with one car. The beetle. Discontent the damn thing and stop moving it upscale. They would continue to sell hundreds of thousands of them. No one wants a damn 25k beetle.
They need to fix allocation. They keep sending VW dealers here cars we don't want. The VWs people want are damn near ignored.
There is NOTHING wrong with softer suspensions etc. Its clear there is room and a market for both. The market in America is DIFFERENT than Europe. If they want to suceed here, they will have to adjust.
Similar to how Leuxs in Europe need diesels and stiffer suspensions to sell better.
AS for ugly boats, look no further than the Passat. Its not ugly but its not beautiful. It also ain't no sports sedan.
I could fix VWs sales here with one car. The beetle. Discontent the damn thing and stop moving it upscale. They would continue to sell hundreds of thousands of them. No one wants a damn 25k beetle.
First off, the "New Bettle" was essential in VWs resurgance in America during 2000-2001. It was never a large seller in Europe. "Nobody wants one" may be applicable in the last two years (which is why they are building a new one), but it has been a huge success for the American market.
Secondly, I completely disagree with your styling assesement. The current Passat is easily best in class for looks, from the raked front lights to the rear circular Bi-LED tail lamps. Classy, elegant, understated. It's a trend the last generation B5.5 Passat set. All of their cars are distinctly VW, which means solid, solid build quality (hood/trunk finishes) and class-leading gap tolorances on the exterior. Quality isn't the problem (after all there is a reason VW was #1 in resale value in 2007, #3 this year). it's reliability. They simply need to do a better job, no contest.
As far as nothing being wrong with "soft suspensions", I guess it depends on the buyer. I don't find anything enjoyable about floaty ride and steering, yet the American consumer can't tell (in the mid-sized sedan class at least). All I'm saying is that I hope Volkswagen sticks to their core principles of building a car that is both affordable, safe, and fun to drive. Driving down the highway or throwing my Passat through a turn is an enjoyable experience. Obviously some thought went into more than just how large the copholders are. I'm simply worried they will loose focus on the core principles which make their cars so special, becuase lets be honest - Nobody, including myself, would own a VW, with all of it's inherent reliability issues and high cost of maintinence/ownership, if it wasn't for high standards of quality and driving experience. The European "flair" is the only reason they sell in the first place. Killing that off completely (not saying they will) would be a disaster, in my opinion. You have to have some sort of competitive advantage. And what would it be if they didn't have that? The highest cost of ownership in it's class? Like I said, disaster.
Last edited by FKL; 12-10-08 at 05:25 PM.
12-10-08 | 05:34 PM
#5
I really don't know what VW's problems are but here's what I think:
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
- The CC is gorgeous but more expensive than the regular Passat and seats one less person. Geez, I just can't justify of not getting this nice looking car... wait, I got it, the G sedan...
- Routan... Honda Odyssey anyone?
- SUVs (Tiguan and Touareg) you say? Sorry, I hate SUVs with a passion.
Hmm... I guess I do know what VW's problems are.
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
- The CC is gorgeous but more expensive than the regular Passat and seats one less person. Geez, I just can't justify of not getting this nice looking car... wait, I got it, the G sedan...
- Routan... Honda Odyssey anyone?
- SUVs (Tiguan and Touareg) you say? Sorry, I hate SUVs with a passion.
Hmm... I guess I do know what VW's problems are.
12-10-08 | 06:38 PM
#6
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Posts: n/a
FKL, the Jetta looks like an uglier Corolla, the Passat like a bigger uglier GS. There is nothing German about their 2 main sedans. The CC comes off as a knock-off CLS as well (but at least its done pretty well, especially modded). The Tiguan is pretty good looking thankfully but thats kind of b/c its competition is so ugly (CR-V for example). The Tourag is okay. The Rabbit continues to get bigger with bigger overhangs but seems to remain the most German. The Routan is a joke. So FOR ME the start is STYLING. The last gen VWs looks GREAT, they LOOKED like VWs, they stood out in a solid, good way. You could easily say "thats a VW". The new cars, not so much. A giant chrome grill is more Escalade than VW. Circular headlights and tails are ridiculous on a VW.
The bettle started no such resurgence here as VW has not had one. They sell LESS VWs than luxury brands. That is not good. Its amazing b/c they sell so well in Europe!
Now don't get me wrong, I like VW, I like their interiors. I much PREFERRED the old VWs. The last gen Passat and Jetta for example.
I don't trust VW resale b/c as you stated, they have a very small core audience. So you have certain people that will only buy VWs, thus inflating resale value.
Their marketing is HORRENDOUS and hit or miss. The GTI/Rabbit ads work well. The silly ads with the talking Beetle are ridiculous.
I am with you I hope VW somehow sticks to core values and expands their market. Probably at the expense of American cars
The bettle started no such resurgence here as VW has not had one. They sell LESS VWs than luxury brands. That is not good. Its amazing b/c they sell so well in Europe!
Now don't get me wrong, I like VW, I like their interiors. I much PREFERRED the old VWs. The last gen Passat and Jetta for example.
I don't trust VW resale b/c as you stated, they have a very small core audience. So you have certain people that will only buy VWs, thus inflating resale value.
Their marketing is HORRENDOUS and hit or miss. The GTI/Rabbit ads work well. The silly ads with the talking Beetle are ridiculous.
I am with you I hope VW somehow sticks to core values and expands their market. Probably at the expense of American cars
12-10-08 | 10:50 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
From: CA
I really don't know what VW's problems are but here's what I think:
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
- The CC is gorgeous but more expensive than the regular Passat and seats one less person. Geez, I just can't justify of not getting this nice looking car... wait, I got it, the G sedan...
- Routan... Honda Odyssey anyone?
- SUVs (Tiguan and Touareg) you say? Sorry, I hate SUVs with a passion.
Hmm... I guess I do know what VW's problems are.
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
- The CC is gorgeous but more expensive than the regular Passat and seats one less person. Geez, I just can't justify of not getting this nice looking car... wait, I got it, the G sedan...
- Routan... Honda Odyssey anyone?
- SUVs (Tiguan and Touareg) you say? Sorry, I hate SUVs with a passion.
Hmm... I guess I do know what VW's problems are.
I really don't know what VW's problems are but here's what I think:
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
- My sister likes the New Beetle but there is no way that she'll be getting one with the $20k sticker.
- I like the Rabbit, but only in the GTI and R32 trims. No way that I'll buy a base Rabbit over something like the Honda Civic coupe.
- I like the Jetta, but couldn't justify at around the same price I can get a Sonata that's better equipped. The GLI is very nice but can get pricey in a big hurry, Civic Si sedan starts to look better and better everytime I add an option to the GLI on the "build 'em" site.
- The Passat is okay but paying over $30k for a FWD 4-banger really doesn't excite me (same goes for the TSX). The V6 + AWD version gets really pricey and it's a no brainer that the G sedan is a much better value.
It's a 2.0TFSI Directly Injnected powerplant which can scoot to 60mph in about 6.7 seconds(with manual). Not a terrible engine, and certainly cannot be compared to the underpowered, low torque-rated Acura TSX 2.4l I4 (207lb-ft at just 1,800rpm). I too was dubious of a 4cylinder powerplant, but this thing is an absolute monster, you have to drive it to appreciate it. The Passat can only be had at the $28,300 level, plus another grand or so for the 30gb navigation box. 4Motion is only available on the CC, and the top level VR6 standard passt has been dropped entirely for 09. I still believe it's finished better than any other car in it's class and has features of cars much more costly (side window shades, 600 watt stereo, heated washer nozzles, 12-way power drivers (heated) seat w/ 4-way lumbar, electronic central locking on every door, Disc-wiping feature in wet weather, automated parking brake w/ hill hold program, even a flippin' umbrella holder/drain built into the drivers door). It's little details like this that I'm afraid they'll loose in the sight of in "Americanizing" their cars. I fully appreciate all of the details and features they think to put into their cars, espcially the Passat. Trying to enumuate Honda and Toyota (market leaders by volume) may very well mean slicing little details like I mentioned above, becuase Americans simply don't care. It will be a truely sad day when that happens.
As far as the Civic v. Jetta/Golf, again I really don't think it's a big comparison. The Golf feels like a much more substantial car, from driving down the road to opening the doors. And frankly, it should when you look at it's price tag. I like the Honda Si, but it's still relatively cheaply built, especially inside with it's yards of hard plastics. It simply doesn't feel Tuetonic in any way, which again, Americans hardly care about. Incidently and hardly suprising, the Routan will be a big volume seller, even though it's clearly inferior to every other VW in the range (doesn't even have a telescoping steering wheel, a feature found in every VAG automobile since around 1998. Again, American's aren't really willing to pay for refinement, espcially in smaller cars like the Golf, which is truely sad in my opinion. VW is the only real manufacture still selling cars in America that live up to those standards, and it's going to be terrible when they stop.
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12-10-08 | 10:55 PM
#8
My thoughts: Nothing special. Sure it's better than the Honda 4-banger in the TSX but at that price range I'll take the G sedan without any doubts.
Not really. Between GM and VW I personally rather see GM to continue sell cars here in NA if I can only pick one, at least it has the Corvette...
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 12-10-08 at 10:59 PM.
12-11-08 | 09:20 AM
#9
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 49
From: AZ
VW's time in the US is over. Americans will no longer pay high prices for uncomfoatable, ugly, unreliable cars. The Japanese and now the Koreans are so far advanced in building quality cars at reasonable prices that VW can't catch up.
There will always be a fringe few that will put up with the poor reliability in order to get the "European" feel, but as BMW moves downscale with cars like the 1 series, there is no room for VW.
Many of the people that have suffered through the terrible mechanical and electrical problems with VWs over the past 10 years will never come back even if they could fix their reliability issues.
Steve
There will always be a fringe few that will put up with the poor reliability in order to get the "European" feel, but as BMW moves downscale with cars like the 1 series, there is no room for VW.
Many of the people that have suffered through the terrible mechanical and electrical problems with VWs over the past 10 years will never come back even if they could fix their reliability issues.
Steve
12-11-08 | 08:33 PM
#10
The last cars that i would actually buy from VW are the last generation passat (preferably the w8 and the phaeton). Possibly the toureg but i'd rater get the Cayenne. Now don't me wrong, i love VW the cc looks great, and probably driving it is too, but in my mind, VW has to decide what they want to do if they are going to stay or succeed for that matter in the American market. They can't sell 15k hatchbacks with suv's and sedans closing on 50k. Unfortunetly, most Americans buy cars for the brand, and in many people's eyes VW isn't a Mercedes, BMW or Lexus, and thats a shame, because this means that VW may lose their "German-es" Overall, if we lost them, i'd be disappointed.
12-11-08 | 09:34 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
From: CA
Remember I had an Audi A4 2.0T as a rental for two weeks? I drove that car all the way to Vegas and back so I think I am more than qualify to comment on this engine.
My thoughts: Nothing special. Sure it's better than the Honda 4-banger in the TSX but at that price range I'll take the G sedan without any doubts.
My thoughts: Nothing special. Sure it's better than the Honda 4-banger in the TSX but at that price range I'll take the G sedan without any doubts.
12-11-08 | 10:38 PM
#12
2008 G35 according to Edmunds' TMV (True Market Value): $28,431
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/infi....html?action=2
2008 Passat Lux (I use Lux because its equipment list is closer to the G) according to Edmunds' TMV: $27,277
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/volk....html?action=2
I rest my case...
Oh and as for calling the VW/Audi 2.0T a beast, maybe it is a beast for someone who has been driving a 4-banger that's under 200hp. For anyone who's used to the 300+ hp sedans like the G, IS350 and 335i, the 2.0T is really nothing to write home about.
More pricing comparison from Edmunds:
(all TMV)
2009 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro base (211hp, 258 ft-lbs): $33,309
2009 Audi A4 3.2 Quattro base (265hp, 243 ft-lbs): $40,600
2009 G37 sedan base (328hp, 269 ft-lbs): $33,904
2009 IS350 base (306hp, 277 ft-lbs): $36,481
Man, this is ugly...
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/infi....html?action=2
2008 Passat Lux (I use Lux because its equipment list is closer to the G) according to Edmunds' TMV: $27,277
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/volk....html?action=2
I rest my case...
Oh and as for calling the VW/Audi 2.0T a beast, maybe it is a beast for someone who has been driving a 4-banger that's under 200hp. For anyone who's used to the 300+ hp sedans like the G, IS350 and 335i, the 2.0T is really nothing to write home about.
More pricing comparison from Edmunds:
(all TMV)
2009 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro base (211hp, 258 ft-lbs): $33,309
2009 Audi A4 3.2 Quattro base (265hp, 243 ft-lbs): $40,600
2009 G37 sedan base (328hp, 269 ft-lbs): $33,904
2009 IS350 base (306hp, 277 ft-lbs): $36,481
Man, this is ugly...
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 12-11-08 at 10:51 PM.
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